Any advises to win the battle of Moscow?

[thierry_agagliate]

I ve been trying in vain several times to win the battle of Moscow in my campaign with only the second level of difficulty, no way... I keep being crushed by a russian counter-offensive around the 20th turn!... Any advise to win this battle?

[Grondel the 10/10]

there are several "Moscow" battles in the game. a little more info is needed here.

sers,
Thomas

[Hercule Poirot]

Originally posted by thierry_agagliate:

I ve been trying in vain several times to win the battle of Moscow in my campaign with only the second level of difficulty, no way... I keep being crushed by a russian counter-offensive around the 20th turn!... Any advise to win this battle?

i assume its axis operation 41 battle for moscow

ultimately this mission shows you your own shortcomings as a player: do you understand the concept of weak everywhere vs strong somewhere? there are too many heavily entrenched units and objectives and too many elite counter attacks for you to try to win everywhere. instead form a "Schwerpunkt" and punch through and meet enough objectives to at least win. Seargent Stratego told you imo the best spot for that; north. do you understand how to preserve your units HP? or do you recklessly attack and leave your units isolated and vulnerable to counterattacks? Do you know how controlled offense works (never expose any of your units to serious damage while advancing)? once you are confronted with elite counter attack inside of moscow you have to have a defense in place that can withstand without massive losses using terrain - eg tanks dont belong in close terrain unless they have traits protecting them and using AT, AA, fighters, artillery to cover your frontline units and the application of hero traits here does wonders too, eg use a infantry super unit (e.g. maxed out damage, no retailiation, ignores entrenchement, overrun etc) plus a camoflage 8.8 AT gun. Are you patient enough to wait out the storm? nobody forces you to press into massive counterattacks while a SU100Y covers heavily entrenched soviet guard units... there are enough turns to deal with each issue one by one.....

[thierry_agagliate]

Thank you guys for your help and advises. The scenario I'm playing is the battle of Moscow of the 15 en November 1941 (from the core game, Barbarossa Campaign). It displays a massive urban map covering the all Moscow and its surroudings. I'm supposed to take the kremlin and a number of other victory point and hold them while Russian counter-attack with massive troops around the 15th tour. The mission briefing advises to focus first on the south of the city, which I do. I play with a majority of pionners (8), 4 tanks only, 2 great AA, 4 greats Artillery, 2 recon, and 8 planes (tactical and strategic bombers qnd fighers). I concentrate my attacks pretty well and preserve and refill my HP troops as much as I can with the prestige I have untill the 15th tours when I controle almost old all key VP in Moscow... and then Russian counter attack with an insane number of fresh forces to wipe me out...

[Grondel the 10/10]

Originally posted by thierry_agagliate:

Thank you guys for your help and advises. The scenario I'm playing is the battle of Moscow of the 15 en November 1941 (from the core game, Barbarossa Campaign). It displays a massive urban map covering the all Moscow and its surroudings. I'm supposed to take the kremlin and a number of other victory point and hold them while Russian counter-attack with massive troops around the 15th tour. The mission briefing advises to focus first on the south of the city, which I do. I play with a majority of pionners (8), 4 tanks only, 2 great AA, 4 greats Artillery, 2 recon, and 8 planes (tactical and strategic bombers qnd fighers). I concentrate my attacks pretty well and preserve and refill my HP troops as much as I can with the prestige I have untill the 15th tours when I controle almost old all key VP in Moscow... and then Russian counter attack with an insane number of fresh forces to wipe me out...

in this scenario the counterattack is triggered by 1 of 2 events, whatever comes first.
it will happen on turn 15 unless u own 8+ Vic hexes earlier.

to win this scenario with a decisive victory u need to kill all 71 enemy units or controle 11 vic hexes(all marked hexes count as Vic hex in this scenario) on the last turn.

To have an easier time winning this scenario:
- do not capture more than 8 marked hexes before turn 15
- backup ur pioneer units with light artillerie guns (7.5 or 10cm) and be sure to have them in close terrain
- enemy tanks are very heavy, i would use Stukas to kill those, but i don´t remember exactly what u had during main campaign at that point. tanks below 20 hard attack will not be very effective against those russian tanks.

hope this helps.

sers,
Thomas

[Hercule Poirot]

Originally posted by thierry_agagliate:

Thank you guys for your help and advises. The scenario I'm playing is the battle of Moscow of the 15 en November 1941 (from the core game, Barbarossa Campaign). It displays a massive urban map covering the all Moscow and its surroudings. I'm supposed to take the kremlin and a number of other victory point and hold them while Russian counter-attack with massive troops around the 15th tour. The mission briefing advises to focus first on the south of the city, which I do. I play with a majority of pionners (8), 4 tanks only, 2 great AA, 4 greats Artillery, 2 recon, and 8 planes (tactical and strategic bombers qnd fighers). I concentrate my attacks pretty well and preserve and refill my HP troops as much as I can with the prestige I have untill the 15th tours when I controle almost old all key VP in Moscow... and then Russian counter attack with an insane number of fresh forces to wipe me out...

its been so long since i played the base campaign i cannot remember enough of this scenario to offer any advice beyond that which is generally recommended like combining heroes well, cover your units, use terrain to your advantage etc.

[яise]

Originally posted by thierry_agagliate:

- backup ur pioneer units with light artillerie guns (7.5 or 10cm) and be sure to have them in close terrain
- enemy tanks are very heavy, i would use Stukas to kill those, but i don´t remember exactly what u had during main campaign at that point. tanks below 20 hard attack will not be very effective against those russian tanks.

hope this helps.

sers,
Thomas

This is an interesting reply, because i personally dont even bother with the smaller artillery like this. Early on to preserve core slots sure, but later on i transition to all 150mm because then you always have a response to tanks, which are as you noted, abundant.

As to OP. dont try and take on the whole city. punch your way in one section, and then go from there. IIRC theres a few chances of small scale encirclements. There isnt too many answers to enemy tanks, so be sure to keep infantry in close terrain, back them with AT guns. Use tac bombers to target tanks. Pioneers are the only unit that can carry weight city fighting without heroes, so make sure you are either using them to make your assualts, or you are using recon, and engineers to buff normal infantry.

Also, take your time. This is something i struggle with in this game, especially if you come from the panzer general era where time is more limited.

[Grondel the 10/10]

Originally posted by яise:

This is an interesting reply, because i personally dont even bother with the smaller artillery like this. Early on to preserve core slots sure, but later on i transition to all 150mm because then you always have a response to tanks, which are as you noted, abundant.

In the open tanks will slaughter infantrie, wether there is a 15cm behind them or not.
In closed terrain infantrie will slaughter tanks, wether there is a 15cm behind them or not.
All an infantrie units needs as backup is 7.5/10.5cm in closed terrain against other infantrie units.

mid 41 my usual infantrie set up is 1x pioneer, 1x wherinf, 1x stugIIIb and 1x best avail towed AT gun.

sers,
Thomas

[ScarScream]

I use 2 "even" battle groups on this map one north to get to moscow fast, the other further down south to get rid of the first line of defense, take care of the first counter offensive and then head straight to downtown Moscow.

Each group consists of 4 infantry (1 pionneer, 1 azul, 2 Wehr) 4 tanks, 1 recon, 2 artilleries, 1 AA and I try to give one ATG to at least one of the groups.

By that time my north force is pretty much in control of north Moscow except the Kremlin and that's when my south force comes in for the kill.

Oh yeah I use at least an IL 2 and Stuka to help out against tanks, one strategic bomber and around 4-5 fighters to protect them.

Once you're in Moscow with the right support behind your forces and air support, it's actually pretty doable even on the hardest difficulty.

[thierry_agagliate]

Many Thanks guys for all these valuable advises!