whats the point of over strengthing.

[Nuggs]

seems like when you over strength you just get extra hap on units at a heavy cost in other areas. is there ever a reason or need to use the over strength feature if it just adds health.

[ozzieduke64]

I personally only over strength to a core slot of +1. When your troops are green i can see some point in over strength . More health more hits as green troops only guarantee a 50% hit chance. When you start to get more veteran troops 2 and 3 stars i personally think it is a waist of core slots. Each to their own

[Magni]

When a unit fights, either in attack or defense, every point of unsuppressed strength it currently has will fire one shot the enemy*. (Unless it has the Rapid Fire trait, which multiplies the number of shots fired.) So units with higher strength also hit harder, as long as their relevant attack stat is high enough that they can break through the target's defense stat at all.

This makes overstrength very powerful on select units, especially when you combine it with heroes. Good candidates tend to be either units that are very cheap in base core slots, or units with very high attack stats.

For an example, the Panzer IIIN is a good candidate as combining high soft attack and very low CS cost compared to the likes of Panthers and Tigers. A fully overstrength IIIN will cost less CS than a base Tiger or Panther, and will actually often do MORE damage when attacking infantry or towed guns. I tend to combine this with heroes like Vigilant, Ignores Entrnechment and/or Entrenchment Killer to create a very efficient assault tank that excels at fighting through fortifications and in urban settings. It will need support against enemy armor, but thanks to decent ground defense and 15 strength, it generally won't die too easily when confronted by that.

*Initiative also comes into play here. Units with higher initiative can have some of their strength fire before the enemy, and potentially suppress or kill them before they can fire back. If the initiative cap set by terrian and/or weather allows is, anyway.

[SPAMBO]

I always overstrength to max, abbreviated rationale as follows...

-If attacking 1st: You'll do more damage (increasing experience) and therefore receive less back (saving prestige). You'll also be less likely to be vulnerable due to receiving less damage back and will have more strength left after attack than non-overstrengthed unit. If unit has overrun trait, you'll be more likely to overrun thereby receiving no damage at all and also get another attack.
-If attacking 2nd: You'll have more non-supressed points left and inflict more damage. To one degree or the next, above also applies.

Generally speaking you'll lose less units and accumulate experience faster due to inflicting more damage but more importantly b/c the unit will not be destroyed as easily.

[Einzbern]

So, what units you guys suggest to overstrength? I used to do this on arty and AA, but it looks like frontline units benefit from this more.

[Magni]

Originally posted by Einzbern:

So, what units you guys suggest to overstrength? I used to do this on arty and AA, but it looks like frontline units benefit from this more

Heavy arty definitely does profit for it, as does especially low-CS AA. Hell, with 1-2 CS units you can add a point or two of overstrength without increasing the core slots.

IMO, it's a high-low affair. The units that profit most are either those with low "natural" core slots that are especially efficient at their slot cost - things like Panzer IIINs or Flammpanzer III, 3-slot StuGs and the like. Or really big hitters, like heavy tanks/tank destroyers or heavy artillery (20cm Mörser, the really big Nebelwerfers etc.) that can be turned into monsters. "Medium" units generally profit less from it in my experience.

[ozzieduke64]

Originally posted by Magni:

Originally posted by Einzbern:

So, what units you guys suggest to overstrength? I used to do this on arty and AA, but it looks like frontline units benefit from this more

Heavy arty definitely does profit for it, as does especially low-CS AA. Hell, with 1-2 CS units you can add a point or two of overstrength without increasing the core slots.

IMO, it's a high-low affair. The units that profit most are either those with low "natural" core slots that are especially efficient at their slot cost - things like Panzer IIINs or Flammpanzer III, 3-slot StuGs and the like. Or really big hitters, like heavy tanks/tank destroyers or heavy artillery (20cm Mörser, the really big Nebelwerfers etc.) that can be turned into monsters. "Medium" units generally profit less from it in my experience.

I agree with you on the ranged units, but on tanks i'm not sold. A green unit at 15 strength will get max kills if they attack first of 7. Two 10 strength units if they attack first will get max kills of 5 each at worst

[Vathek1]

Originally posted by Einzbern:

So, what units you guys suggest to overstrength? I used to do this on arty and AA, but it looks like frontline units benefit from this more.

Personally, I tend to prefer overstrengthing units in three cases:

1. Units which don't increase in core slots from some mild overstrengthing. For instance, I will always overstrength a Sdkfz. 7/1 (self-propelled Flakvierling) to 11, as at 11 points, it will still cost 2 core slots. Likewise, I always overstrength recon planes to 12, since that again doesn't increase their core slots.
   
2. Units which will be doing the bulk of fighting in a given scenario, or which I'm relying on to do some heavy lifting. For nasty urban fights like Moscow and Stalingrad, and even in Norway South where I cannot field any tanks* I overstrength my Pioniere, even if this means dropping a few tanks or some aircraft. (At Moscow, it tends to snow so often that my aircraft are grounded for at least half of the scenario). Those overstrength Pioniere are expensive in terms of core slots, but they'll hit harder in close combat and be harder to kill outright. Similarly, in Sealion I tend to overstrength my strategic bombers to get thin out the Royal Navy a bit faster, as they clearly didn't spend the past four years just scrubbing the decks and singing sea chanties like the green Kriegsmarine auxiliaries apparently did.
   
3. Units which I equip with potent heroes like Rapid Fire 1.5x, Vigilant, No Retaliation, or Zero Slots. Putting Rapid Fire 1.5x, Zero Slots, and Vigilant on an overstrengthed Flammpanzer makes for one unstoppable murder machine in city fights. You can roll the horrid thing straight into city hexes and barbecue three enemy infantry units each turn (or better yet, flambé 2, and back it up with artillery against the inevitable enemy counter-attacks). Just keep enemy tanks away from your rolling barbecue, as they aren't invited to the party.

*Whilst nothing stops you from fielding tanks in Norway South, the terrain is so poorly suited to armour that it is a waste of slots to do so.

Originally posted by ozzieduke64:

I agree with you on the ranged units, but on tanks i'm not sold. A green unit at 15 strength will get max kills if they attack first of 7. Two 10 strength units if they attack first will get max kills of 5 each at worst

Ah, that is why you overstrength the experienced units, my friend... not the green ones! Ideally, you shouldn't be recruiting a green tank unit at 15 strength**, unless you began a campaign with Killer Team and happened to get a Zero Slots hero in your first mission. And even then, I'd slap that hero on a Stuka and overstrength it to 15, since that Ju-87 will probably be better at killing enemy tanks than any 1939-era Panzers you do get. It's a bit ironic that when the Germans were actually winning, they were still running the trash-tier Panzers. But by the time they started fielding the big cats and cool stuff which everyone knows and loves, they were definitely losing the war.

**In fact, you shouldn't ever need to recruit green tank units beyond 1941, since you should have at least three experienced tank units from the start of the campaign, and experienced recons you can convert into tanks (with only 1.5 stars loss of experience). Recon units rank up very fast, since they gain experience for also assisting other units.

[Magni]

Originally posted by ozzieduke64:

I agree with you on the ranged units, but on tanks i'm not sold. A green unit at 15 strength will get max kills if they attack first of 7. Two 10 strength units if they attack first will get max kills of 5 each at worst

I'm doing it on veteran tanks, and combining in heroes. Lots of heroes work extremely well with overstrength.

[j_pursel]

Maybe I'm doing it wrong but I love a fighter plane with zero slots, double attack, and strengthened to 15. It clears the skies so fast. Bonus if you can spare a 'no retaliation' hero.

[Magni]

Originally posted by j_pursel:

Maybe I'm doing it wrong but I love a fighter plane with zero slots, double attack, and strengthened to 15. It clears the skies so fast. Bonus if you can spare a 'no retaliation' hero.

Nah. High-end high-CP fighter is a good candidate for zero slots (the only rivals are IMO heavy tanks, 21cm Mörser or the 32cm Nebelwerfer - I have a moster 21cm in my Axis Operations Core with Zero Slots, Elsa and Rapid Fire x 1.5; it frequently obliterates full-strength units), and one of the best for double attack. And no retaliation is also quite possibly best on a fighter.

[Hercule Poirot]

Originally posted by SPAMBO:

I always overstrength to max, abbreviated rationale as follows...

-If attacking 1st: You'll do more damage (increasing experience) and therefore receive less back (saving prestige). You'll also be less likely to be vulnerable due to receiving less damage back and will have more strength left after attack than non-overstrengthed unit. If unit has overrun trait, you'll be more likely to overrun thereby receiving no damage at all and also get another attack.
-If attacking 2nd: You'll have more non-supressed points left and inflict more damage. To one degree or the next, above also applies.

Generally speaking you'll lose less units and accumulate experience faster due to inflicting more damage but more importantly b/c the unit will not be destroyed as easily.

This