Prudent - Scenario Killer

[Droogan]

So I like to replay the main campaign using some different settings just to mix things up and here is an issue I've found.

When playing using the Heroic Showdown and David v Goliath options, I've run into a scenario killing issue whereby a victory cannot be achieved. In one scenario an enemy unit had the Prudent hero trait attached. It started at increased base strength due to the DvG setting and no matter what I do I can't kill it.

I get get it down to a strength of 1 but from there on out I cannot damage it. I can encircle and hit with all the heavy stuff, zero damage. This happened twice now, once with an indestructible (str = 1) unit where the scenario required that every unit be destroyed, and once where the fortification was an objective hex and I couldn't finish it off so I couldn't get all the hexes for victory.

I've never had to use the cheat code to get a victory but in these cases I had to in order to move on. Any ideas how to tweak Prudent so it doesn't make an indestructible zombie unit?

[jacjacmac]

DLC campaign - Charles De Gaulle, driving his fantasy white B1 heavy tank, gets this + free supply, and I didn't realise until after surrounding and blasting away. Wasted a scenario win in frustration trying to kill him. On restarting ignored him, and he gets bored after a little damage and drives slowly to the rear to repair. He can be killed, just not easily...

Weird things seem to happen at times, such as in Greece fire at one enemy and hit another. Thought of reporting a bug but... Now I know to look at their Info/Statistics, where you find the bad guys have Heroes now, one of which makes you fire at them not your target.

Look forward to Kolobanov. He has a KV1.

Enjoy!

[Virgil-SKY]

Originally posted by jacjacmac:

DLC campaign - Charles De Gaulle, driving his fantasy white B1 heavy tank, gets this + free supply, and I didn't realise until after surrounding and blasting away. Wasted a scenario win in frustration trying to kill him. On restarting ignored him, and he gets bored after a little damage and drives slowly to the rear to repair. He can be killed, just not easily...

Weird things seem to happen at times, such as in Greece fire at one enemy and hit another. Thought of reporting a bug but... Now I know to look at their Info/Statistics, where you find the bad guys have Heroes now, one of which makes you fire at them not your target.

Look forward to Kolobanov. He has a KV1.

Enjoy!

Yeah but there is no more Prudent on enemies in AO 41, guess they have noticed this. That was quite annoying.

[Thorin]

Or just use the proper units for them, the 88 can kill any prudent guy (the DvG will be a bit difficult, but it still can kill it), or the 21 cm art, which easily can kill them. And that's before any hero involved. Maybe if a boosted infantry gets this, it can be an issue, but that only happens if you boost the enemy in multiple ways, so at that point all bets are off.

[SPAMBO]

I just 1 shotted De Gaulle on turn 7 of Sedan with an overpowered Pionere. Was wandering down the road advancing quickly with aggressive deployment, saw De Gaulle, thought...here we go.

He had been mixing it up with the Panzer 1st, was STR 11, and was on forest (close) terrain. Moved Oleh Dir Pioniere next to him and nearly keeled over when it said 1/11. Hit the button.

1 shot. Bye bye De Gaulle.

LOL.

[Black_Hole]

Originally posted by BarbarianHunter:

I just 1 shotted De Gaulle on turn 7 of Sedan with an overpowered Pionere.

1 shot. Bye bye De Gaulle.

LOL.

But he´ll return soon. More than once...and he´s getting even stronger each further time. Have fun with this fictional demi-god like superhero nonsense unit! ;)

[SPAMBO]

This is my 2nd playthrough at a higher level. By the time I got to England, I just left him alone. I didn't have to send half the army after him and he seemed by and large contented mulling about a city thumbing his nose at me.

[Droogan]

In my case it wasn't a specific hero like De Gaulle just a rando unit with prudent, but with D v G their base strength was sufficient that 21cm, 88s or Stukas with multiple heroes (double attack or rapid fire) could not kill them off. I could get them to 1 strength but even if I hit them multiple times in the same turn with the previously listed units, I still couldn't wipe them out.

Originally posted by Thorin:

Or just use the proper units for them, the 88 can kill any prudent guy (the DvG will be a bit difficult, but it still can kill it), or the 21 cm art, which easily can kill them. And that's before any hero involved. Maybe if a boosted infantry gets this, it can be an issue, but that only happens if you boost the enemy in multiple ways, so at that point all bets are off.

[Edmon]

If it is just a random unit with prudent, I would attack the issue by surrounding it (but not damaging it) until it was fully suppressed and then taping it for 1 damage to make it surrender. Was this not possible?

[Green Knight]

During Sealion you meet De Gaulle with str 20. Combined with Prudent that makes it almost impossible to kill his last few str (he also doesn't surrender). I was forced to keep him boxed in at low str, then chip him to death with a 15 str 21 cm arty piece. That felt very odd, but Ok

[Magni]

Originally posted by Green Knight:

During Sealion you meet De Gaulle with str 20. Combined with Prudent that makes it almost impossible to kill his last few str (he also doesn't surrender). I was forced to keep him boxed in at low str, then chip him to death with a 15 str 21 cm arty piece. That felt very odd, but Ok

88s in AT mode can kill him off, too. That was what I ended up doing after even my 21cms bounced off his head.

[Virgil-SKY]

Originally posted by Magni:

Originally posted by Green Knight:

During Sealion you meet De Gaulle with str 20. Combined with Prudent that makes it almost impossible to kill his last few str (he also doesn't surrender). I was forced to keep him boxed in at low str, then chip him to death with a 15 str 21 cm arty piece. That felt very odd, but Ok

88s in AT mode can kill him off, too. That was what I ended up doing after even my 21cms bounced off his head.

I think it was due to low level causing low accurancy, 21cm has higher HA than 8.8cm, so they should behave better with more experience, and mine did finished that 20 strength Valentine when all the 3 8.8cms failed.

[Magni]

Originally posted by Virgil-SKY:

I think it was due to low level causing low accurancy, 21cm has higher HA than 8.8cm, so they should behave better with more experience, and mine did finished that 20 strength Valentine when all the 3 8.8cms failed.

21cms are artillery, though, which means without a Lethal Attack hero they effectively have less AT for the purpose of scoring actual kills. (My Flaks - both at ~2 stars - had less experience than the max overstrength Rapid Fire x1.5 21cm, but I had no Lethal Attack hero.)

[Green Knight]

Valentine is 18 defense

Say it sits at 5 str.

It now has 33 defense.

Your 88 has 24 HA

24+8 = 32. Less than 33.

So you can, at best, inflict suppression.

21 cm has 31 HA. It might take some time, but it can kill De Gaulle, even w/o Lethal.

[Green Knight]

Tank Killer or Exterminator will be needed for 88 to have any chance of killing De Gaulle.

[Virgil-SKY]

Originally posted by Magni:

Originally posted by Virgil-SKY:

I think it was due to low level causing low accurancy, 21cm has higher HA than 8.8cm, so they should behave better with more experience, and mine did finished that 20 strength Valentine when all the 3 8.8cms failed.

21cms are artillery, though, which means without a Lethal Attack hero they effectively have less AT for the purpose of scoring actual kills. (My Flaks - both at ~2 stars - had less experience than the max overstrength Rapid Fire x1.5 21cm, but I had no Lethal Attack hero.)

IIRC each star turns some of the suppression into kill for artillery units, so it works in a way like Lethal Attack, that's what I mean for experience.