1941 DLC after Mercury .. Henschel or Krupp

[BigSexy]

The is an option to take a Henschel 12.5cm anti-tank gun vs a Krupp 10.5cm for 3 commendation points. Not sure what all the ramifications are. Does anybody know what is involved here with the choices?

[Virgil-SKY]

First of all, do you take both the Bf 109Z prototypes and the He 111Z prototypes, and only have 5 commendation point left? If you did, then you will only be able to get one of them because each of them costs 3. If you don't have enough points, the event won't be triggered.
The 12.8cm one is the Sturer Emil, you recieve 19 prototypes so that you can form one unit and have some spare parts to repair. It is only inferior to the Elefant which won't be available until quite late campaign (iirc 1943? or 44?) and anything comes even later than that, but takes more slot (iirc 6) and costs more.
The 10.5cm one is the Dicker Max that is capped at 5 maximum strength but not limited in replacements. You may need to overstrength it to make it useful enough. It costs less, takes less slot (iirc 2, and 4 when overstrengthened to 10, 6 when to 15 with Consolidator), but also less powerful than the Sturer Emil.
Sturer Emil comes first, and if you still have enough points, Dicker Max comes in the next turn. Both are useful when you need to deal with the soviet KV series and T-34s, but neither necessary to finish any scenarios.

[BigSexy]

thanks!

[BigSexy]

thanks

[scottbowyer]

I found Dicker Max to be a great choice when combined with Consolidated. That's 15 strength that can be replenished as a normal unit.

[Magni]

You can take both if you Skip either the Bf109Z or HE111Z. More of both of those planes will be offered to you later in '41, and the 109Z again in '42. Perosnally, I'd advise skipping the first 111Z offer.

I personally found the Dicker Max to be the better choice. The Emil is both limited in stock and frankly overkill even against KVs. The Max can be overstrengthened to 10 anyway and is more than powerful enough at 10 points already.

Though, there's some '41 scenarios where I would genuinely bring both. The Emil also has the advantage that you will lose nothing switching the unit to another type of AT, as the points will stay in your pool.

[Lakel]

Small heads up if you havent bought them yet somehow, they are slow, grand 4 speed. Work great defensively, but offensively you will need to plan for that.

[jmorten50]

I never figured out how to use anti-tank guns in a offensive battle. I'll rather have an extra tank

[Green Knight]

Both Max and Emil are nice at the time you're offered them. They basically take away your AT weakness when it's at its worst.

Later you get long Stugs that have speed 5, and those totally OP AT heroes. By then you can park these special units.

[Virgil-SKY]

Green Knight eredeti hozzászólása:

Later you get long Stugs that have speed 5, and those totally OP AT heroes. By then you can park these special units.

And SU-122, with chassis of T-34 it's 6 speed and can be switched to arty mode when you don't need AT support, while still benefits from the AT hero's Rapid Fire 2x.

[gphotopoulos]

It also depends on what kind of heroes you have rolled, if you have a spare Camouflage hero (usually 88s are my priority for those) and/or a Field Repairs hero, the Sturer Emil is amazing. Just put a unit of yours that you know the AI likes to attack with tanks (an infantry, a recon, a PzII tank) in front, a couple of other units flanking it (not required, but it maximizes opportunities for the Sturer Emil and keeps it protected) and the Sturer Emil behind your bait (and also the flanking units) and the AI will happily attack the bait, because it can't see the Sturer Emil in support. The Sturer Emil will probably oneshot the enemy tank (especially if boosted, I have Tank Killer and overstrength on it) and then a second enemy tank will come attack your bait etc. If you get lucky (in my experience they sometimes stop attacking the bait) you can kill 2-3 enemy tanks in their round, and then get a round of yours to play with. You can do this with any type of bait, but due to its slow movement I found that the most practical use for it is as support for infantry. You can move infantry much faster if you don't have to stick to close terrain, and the Sturer Emil is just the unit to support an infantry unit that's out in the open. Be careful of enemy airplanes though, keep it protected, especially if you don't have a Field Repairs hero on it.

[Magni]

jmorten50 eredeti hozzászólása:

I never figured out how to use anti-tank guns in a offensive battle. I'll rather have an extra tank

Advance them with your armor. A single tank destroyer in a ball with 3+ tanks is a huge asset against enemy tanks, especially big ones. AT support fire can make a hell of a lot of a difference, and TDs themselves aren't bad at taking on enemy armor offensively, either.

For AI'41, my personal favourite was pairing up the Neubaufahrzeug and the Emil or Max. The Nbfz's big issue is that it's fragile and hence tends to draw fire from all those nasty T-34s and KV2. Having a heavy TD right next to it turns that into an outright advantage.

And then by Stalingrad you get the StuH'42, and that thing is just ridiculous between decent toughness nad AT firepower, an effective artillery mode, entrenchment busting and a rather low cost in prestige and core slots for all of it. They're one of the best support units you can get for the Germans overall, and can effectively pair up with both tanks and infantry.

[jmorten50]

Magni eredeti hozzászólása:

jmorten50 eredeti hozzászólása:

I never figured out how to use anti-tank guns in a offensive battle. I'll rather have an extra tank

Advance them with your armor. A single tank destroyer in a ball with 3+ tanks is a huge asset against enemy tanks, especially big ones. AT support fire can make a hell of a lot of a difference, and TDs themselves aren't bad at taking on enemy armor offensively, either.

For AI'41, my personal favourite was pairing up the Neubaufahrzeug and the Emil or Max. The Nbfz's big issue is that it's fragile and hence tends to draw fire from all those nasty T-34s and KV2. Having a heavy TD right next to it turns that into an outright advantage.

And then by Stalingrad you get the StuH'42, and that thing is just ridiculous between decent toughness nad AT firepower, an effective artillery mode, entrenchment busting and a rather low cost in prestige and core slots for all of it. They're one of the best support units you can get for the Germans overall, and can effectively pair up with both tanks and infantry.

I have used that tactic a few times, but isnt it a big exploit ? when you put a super anti-tank behind a group of tanks and they just keep smashing into it. You should think the AI would learn after the first complete kill of a Matilda II, but no, the just keep coming !!. 3 Matildas and a crusader in one go and then we ran out of ammo

[Magni]

jmorten50 eredeti hozzászólása:

I have used that tactic a few times, but isnt it a big exploit ? when you put a super anti-tank behind a group of tanks and they just keep smashing into it. You should think the AI would learn after the first complete kill of a Matilda II, but no, the just keep coming !!. 3 Matildas and a crusader in one go and then we ran out of ammo

No? Like, that's what AT is for. It's no more of an exploit than keeping artillery and AA near your units to support them. Sometimes the AI will decide to go for it anyway, and suffer for it.

[Green Knight]

Ai doesn't remember board state when it hits ambush or camo. This weakness is exploitable.