My idea to balance heroes

[Mononc]

A unit may have a number of heroes assigned to it based on the number of experience stars the unit has.

At 1 star, the unit may have 1 hero.
At 3 stars, the unit may have 2 heroes.
At 5 stars, the unit may have 3 heroes.

In addition to this, each hero should have a designated type of unit he can be assigned to(just like Rudel). But not entirely in a random way. Coded predefined, to avoid having useless heroes designated to a type of unit that don't fit, like Fast Rebase designated to Tank. You could have multiple predefined unit types that fit for each hero and then have those be randomised.

I think this is the perfect way to balance heroes, which would also help balance the whole campaign game. Cause its way too easy right now. Im at Kiev scenario with 75 000 prestige. Because I play well, but also because using heroes appropriately makes this game too easy.

Sidenote: I think Zero Slots heroes need to disapear, its simply OP. Put that on a 21 arty along with Consolidator, and you have 18 Core slots for free. Ridiculous. I have 2x 21 arties with Zero Slots, fully overstrenghted, so I wipe 2 units per turn with those, plus enemy arties that shoot in their radius also get wiped. Its the main reason I advanced so easily in the campaign.

[Lakel]

Somewhat similar to PC1s style, which I personally wish made a comeback, at least as an option.

Unit gets 1 random hero at say, 100 kills, a second at 500, and their final third at 1000, numbers pulled out my ass to be clear.
Big deal being each hero was for that unit, and not transferable, but could be a few things such as, attack +1-+2, move+1, range+1 and such.
It really meant something when you got range or move + on your artillery units :p

[Mononc]

Nah, I actually like the new hero system, with more different abilities, and being able to move them around is cool. It adds alot to strategy during Deployment.
I just think the ability to move them should be limited and balanced.

[Thorin]

Almost no hero has issue on its own, even the zero slot ones are ok, It only gets insane when you combine powerful or in some case even not so great heroes into one unit to crate monster. That 21 cm arty at 15 OS for zero slot is nice, but it gets stupid with the consolidator and some other booster, like lethal or double attack.

[Leistungsumfang]

Yeah, I got zero slot, consolidation and no retaliation on oleh dirs Pioniere (which I had trained with an Overrun hero for steamroller before).
Then I got the hero traits Attack after deploying, Use own units to negate ZOC and split movement
Given the right circumstances he drives in a city, oneshots everyone around him and drives back out lol. Usually u can not drive back out so you either dont spend all of his ammo or make sure to properly cover him.

Its totally silly but also totally fun lol

[Vathek1]

In my opinion, the only (or on one of the few) hero which is potentially OP on its own is Rapid Fire 2x, as it turns just about everything into a veritable powerhouse. Late war tanks with this hero are stupidly powerful, especially since you'd likely have full veterancy on them by that point.

That said, you aren't guaranteed to get that hero, Zero Slots, or Double Attack on a complete campaign.

Nevertheless, if the OP still thinks the hero system is unbalanced (and can't resist the temptation to simply eschew OP combinations--I know I can't, heh), well I can think of a few unobstrusive balancing suggestions/options:

1. Heroes significantly increase the reinforcement cost of units they are attached to.
2. Heroes attached to units that are destroyed will be lost permanently
3. Add a prestige cost every time a hero is assigned or removed from a unit.

[Thorin]

Sadly non of these would really helps, you rarely lose units, so that is not a real option for losing heroes (and was very surprised when it happened and the hero was not lost) and prestige has no meaning.

[Mononc]

Originally posted by Thorin:

Almost no hero has issue on its own, even the zero slot ones are ok

I disagree. Fully overstrenghted, a 21 arty takes 12 core slots. So that one hero on his own gives you +12 core slots.

[Breca]

Hero system was a neat idea in the main campaign, that got out of control with too many heroes in the DLCs, and zero dev interest in balancing obvious OP Hero combos.

In the DLC's, the generic Heroes are so numerous as to be dime-a-dozen at best, game-breaking at worst.

I can hear the eager chorus now. "You can always play without heroes! There are many options!"

I'm watching a great game (DLC) drown in these generic heroes.

How about this instead: take what was cool about the PzC1 Grand Campaign Heroes (unique personalities, meaningful stats), and what is cool about PzC2 Heroes (unique abilities) and then bite the bullet and do a real overhaul the PzC2 DLCs.

1. Reset the DLC reward system for all new games.
   
2. Remove generic Heroes from the DLCs completely, but retain their abilities to craft new Legendary Heroes.
   
3. Add a Legendary named Hero or two to each DLC. Make them meaningful and cool.
   
4. Remove or rebalance the OP abilities. (Zero Slot might be ok, if it were, say, tied to a Legendary Sniper limited to Infantry for example.)

Breca

[Accolon]

I agree that the game becomes way too easy if you have 40+ different Heroes like me.

I played 1941 with 2 Special Challenges and -13 Traitpoints and still got all Objectives and Bonus once in the first try.

The Point is, I really like the Hero thing but the pure mass is just too much. In one of my collections I have 3x Envelopment +3 Overwhelming Attack and I didn't restarted once...

So all we can do is limit ourself. Put the Slider to like 33% and you get a hero every 3rd mission. It doesn't make much sense to claim the game gets too easy, if you looking for challenges go create them for yourself.

Look at Edmons playthrough of DLC 1939 no special challenges but -14 Traitpoints including "Slow Reaction" and "Ruthless". This is an eye opener...changes the whole game.

So guys please...in the end this is a singleplayer, challenge yourself.

[Raymond of Tripoli]

Sorry but happy with things as they are. You don't have to have a hero every scenario, you can change the difficulty level, take on negative traits and you can even sell the ones you get so in the end the level of challenge is down to you. Id it's too easy then you can change it yourself without changing the game for everyone else.

[stug]

Seems heroes are favorite topic again. People, there are a plenty of options in the game to get rid of them once and for all. Unless once a hero is acquired is hard to refuse the temptation no to use it. Time to work on strong will I say. You got one-star unit implement said idea in your core force to assign one hero, etc. It is your game after all and how you play it is totally up to you.

[Flopsy_the_rabbit]

Originally posted by Mononc:

Originally posted by Thorin:

Almost no hero has issue on its own, even the zero slot ones are ok

I disagree. Fully overstrenghted, a 21 arty takes 12 core slots. So that one hero on his own gives you +12 core slots.

It doesn't really give you +12 core slots, it just lets you field one overstrengthed 21cm artillery. I doubt very much that anyone would be using 12 slots for a single artillery unit without the heroes, and you can't claim to be 'saving' the slots if you wouldn't ever have used them in the first place

[Complex Strategy]

As some have said there are a lot of ways to balance the issue of heroes already in the game. We have traits that limit you to 1 hero per unit, you can adjust how many heroes with a slider, and you can even just turn them off.

If you really find heroes to be to game breaking there are many easy to do things that can help with that. I really don't think we need to nerf stuff and ruin the fun of people that enjoy that playstyle.

[Grondel the 10/10]

heros are not the problem, hero traits being stronger and weaker are not the problem either.
it´s the total randomness that makes it impossible to balance the difficulty to ur liking.
let´s say u had a campaign playthrough where u got strong heros early on. it fellt pretty easy, so u decide to ramp up the difficulty on ur next playthrough, but this time the heros u get are much weaker so u get ur ass handed to u.

a solution to this would be to have a choose "1 outa 3 hero"-event at the start of the map instead of 1 completely random asigned.

[eddieballgame]

One of the many great features of this game is that one can choose to implement almost any idea that he or she feels...balances the game.
I, for example, never put more than 1 hero on a unit.
Handicaps me, sure...who cares. :)
Adjusting the Leader Trait Points in the 'Rules', adjusting the amount one can use, etc.
Prestige points are too easy to attain...adjust the replacement costs to make use of all that cash.
Still on the subject of easily acquiring 'Prestige Points'...refrain from using the 'gamiest trait' in the game (imho)...Perimeter Control.
As pointed out, one can also adjust the amount of heroes one receives in their campaigns/scenarios.