Why build heavy cruisers?

[mlangsdorf]

Is there any use for heavy cruisers? Early heavy cruisers are inadequate BBs. After the development of BCs, the BCs replace CAs for the heavy, fast gun ship. CLs and DDs are better for the fast torpedo platform, and even CLs are costly for that role.

So what do people build CAs for?

I'm currently toying around with building CAs as fast pursuit ships: heavy forward guns and as much speed as I can give them. The intent is to use them as commerce raiders and maybe attach 2 per battlefleet to chase down fast, fleeing enemy cruisers. I can sometimes use DDs in the same role, but DDs can have a hard time closing with a fast cruiser that can nearly sink the DD with a single lucky shot. I'm hoping that with 8x 10" guns forward and plenty of armor, a CA doesn't need to get as close. Has anyone tried a similar strategy?

The reason I want to use CAs instead of BCs is that CAs have less crew and take up less space in a fleet formation. I'll also be less tempted to use them in the battleline.

[chiyen]

I don't build them.

[markhunter]

I use 2 CA Types
Typ a
Has 22.5 cm Main Armament ( 8.9) with max Barrel Length
Use:
Kill DD`s and screen for Fish in the Water

Type b
30.3 cm Main Armament (11.9) with max Barrel Length
+ 2x Tipple Fish Tank`s
Kill any Typ of Cruiser

[Shad]

Depends on time period. Generally I build CA as pocket battleships: well armored and armed to escort the BB line or in convoy attack or defence. BCs are often horribly expensive for their speed, and can be thrown into completely wrong battles by battlegen. The only good BC is a long range fast sniper, which is a very niche role.

[rossi191]

Originally posted by mlangsdorf:

Is there any use for heavy cruisers? Early heavy cruisers are inadequate BBs. After the development of BCs, the BCs replace CAs for the heavy, fast gun ship. CLs and DDs are better for the fast torpedo platform, and even CLs are costly for that role.

So what do people build CAs for?

I'm currently toying around with building CAs as fast pursuit ships: heavy forward guns and as much speed as I can give them. The intent is to use them as commerce raiders and maybe attach 2 per battlefleet to chase down fast, fleeing enemy cruisers. I can sometimes use DDs in the same role, but DDs can have a hard time closing with a fast cruiser that can nearly sink the DD with a single lucky shot. I'm hoping that with 8x 10" guns forward and plenty of armor, a CA doesn't need to get as close. Has anyone tried a similar strategy?

The reason I want to use CAs instead of BCs is that CAs have less crew and take up less space in a fleet formation. I'll also be less tempted to use them in the battleline.

early in the campaign i use heavy/armoured cruisers to support my battleships they can take a few hits there similar in speed and just seem more effective at screening the BBs than the early light cruisers

[thundercactus]

Originally posted by markhunter:

I use 2 CA Types
Typ a
Has 22.5 cm Main Armament ( 8.9) with max Barrel Length
Use:
Kill DD`s and screen for Fish in the Water

Type b
30.3 cm Main Armament (11.9) with max Barrel Length
+ 2x Tipple Fish Tank`s
Kill any Typ of Cruiser

I'm with this guy. I also build two types
The 11" CA's are basically light BC's; critically they are LIGHTER which means they can sit in smaller ports.
The new strategic fight system actively engages fleets IN PORTS to do transport hunting and intercepting some ships, so it actually makes sense to have some BC's or 11" CA's purposely left in ports to "do nothing".

The 9" CA's are screening elements for BB's on deployment. CL's and DD's are great for torpedo runs and chasing down transports, but they don't have the armour to handle screening for BB's. The BB's themselves usually have 8" secondaries, but you only get so much ammo for them, and they can only engage one target at a time. Having 9" CA's allows to engage a larger number of DD's and CL's making torpedo runs at you, and the added firing rate and greater ammo capacity certainly helps in that regard.

[Steeltrap]

I largely build BBs, CLs and DDs.

CAs for a long stretch of the game are largely a disappointing waste of time and expense, ESPECIALLY when some nations get atrociously bad hulls for a long time (I'm looking at you, France) whose accuracy is garbage and speed is poor.

CLs with a load of 5" guns, with potentially some increase both to calibre and length, make for great DD killers, are faster than CAs and considerably cheaper.

A BB will kill a CA simply enough. They'll also kill CLs, LOL. I use CLs to kill DDs.
CAs really don't have much purpose IMO, at least not for a LONG time into the game.

I've not encountered enemy CAs a bunch of my CLs and DDs can't take down anyway.

My attempts at CAs have been almost entirely wastes of time and money.

Funnily enough, it's why there was considerable debate in the real world through the period as to whether more 6" weren't superior to fewer 8", ESPECIALLY when nations were generally keeping somewhat within the confines of the various tonnage limits of the naval treaties post WW1.

[Lik]

Significantly smaller and cheaper than BB or BC, can be used against any class same or smaller if given appropriate number and size of main guns. Pre-modern somewhat weak however due to most hulls limiting you to 2 turrets at most (placement limitations). Notable exceptions being any of the hulls that allow extra wing turrets as while they're less accurate than centerline mounted simply having more guns lets these particular heavy cruisers punch up into their own or even BC weight class pre-modern.

I'd say if you can make a GOOD heavy cruiser, it fills a niche and shreds cruisers and DDs so your BBs can focus on other things. Otherwise, as people often say, just go with more BC or CL. Another general rule of thumb, more 8" if using as a screen, 11" if trying to punch up and make a pocket battleship, as the reload time difference is often insane.

[mlangsdorf]

Answering my own question:
USA Modern Heavy Cruiser 1 with Geared Turbines 2, Oil 2 can make 36 knots on a moderately armored hull with 2x4 10/53 forward (and a 1x2 10/53 in the tail).

In the role of "chasing down really fast enemy CAs" a pair of them outperforms a DD flotilla or CL squadron. The DDs have to close to within 5 km while dodging heavy gun fire that can cripple them in a single shot; the CLs don't have to get as close but are slower and can't take much more fire. The CAs can stand off at 11-12 km and batter through any reasonable armor.

They're also nearly as good as a BC in the "kill anything that isn't a BB" role and as a convoy raider.

The convoy that was defended by a BB was a pain, but that's what DDs are for and the CA did a pretty good job of killing the enemy CL.

So I'm thinking that a pair of fast CAs in every battlegroup and as part of the guard force in most sea areas makes sense. I don't know if I'd bother building them prior to the Modern Heavy Cruiser hull and the appearance of enemy CAs making 30+ knots.

[Shad]

TBH, there is no real use for DDs and CL in the game, since their main role is fulfilled by other ships, and their major role (AA escort) doesn't exist. CAs can shoot things up much better.

The best torpedo platform in-game is the starting TB. You can fit a lot of torpedoes on it it for very low cost. No need for guns, they shouldn't be shooting at anything. Set torps to aggressive and do an early sweep of an enemy fleet from max torpedo range, then run away. Maybe add in mine sweeping for a strategic use.

[chiyen]

DD can be good shooter if your have getter gun generation and fits lots on them, since it's hard to hit (was, may become more easily hit in V 1.5.0.3 update).

Additionally, DD got smoke and is faster than TB.

[Shad]

Originally posted by chiyen:

DD can be good shooter if your have getter gun generation and fits lots on them, since it's hard to hit (was, may become more easily hit in V 1.5.0.3 update).

Additionally, DD got smoke and is faster than TB.

The thing with DDs is that you are still gambling. One good hit on any early DDs will still cripple them. And late high speed DDs get extremely expensive.

TBs also get shot, but with 300 size they can be hard to hit, and even if they sink, they are 10x cheaper than a decent DD, so it's an expendable distraction. Once you get torpedo ranges of 6km+ base, you can set up long range launches to disrupt the enemy fleet.

[eagarlock]

I mainly just use CL, DD, and BB. I find CA to be kind of useless to be honest because BC is the happy balance between CA, CL, and a BB so yeah I don't use CA

[chiyen]

CA in slow speed tends to take hits, and stay in dock for months; occupying x thousand tons of dock capacity for several months - and doing nothing productive during that time excepting repairing itself.

[Shad]

Originally posted by chiyen:

CA in slow speed tends to take hits, and stay in dock for months; occupying x thousand tons of dock capacity for several months - and doing nothing productive during that time excepting repairing itself.

If your CAs are spending months i dock, something is wrong. CAs should have enough armor to not take pens, unless you are facetanking dreads. I've just had a war with Japan, and 4 CAs literally wiped out the the entirety or the japanese fleet in successive convoy raid battles, while the main fleet was doing invasions.

[-=[USA]=-rubberboot]

I tend to build a lot of CA's with 11in (28cm) guns, and max armour them. for me they are the poor mans battlecruiser, and i will easily put them in my battle lines going after battleships and battlecruisers. they make it easier to dodge the torpedoes and reform up on the division quicker.