Suggestions how to start with Japan (and what date)?

[GrimReaperHUN]

So I started once the campagin with Japan, ended up being bankrupted even I lowered both the crew training and the research to 0%, still 22mil minus every turn until the treasury emptied.
Is there anyone who completed at least once the campaign with Japan without being bankrupted? Any suggestions how to get increasing naval budget?

I also had two succesful war against China, both times I completely destroyed their fleets and harrassed their cargo convoys, and once against russia, where they gave up after 8 month being blockaded by my subs at their ports on the far east.

[Lipi]

Originally posted by GrimReaperHUN:

So I started once the campagin with Japan, ended up being bankrupted even I lowered both the crew training and the research to 0%, still 22mil minus every turn until the treasury emptied.
Is there anyone who completed at least once the campaign with Japan without being bankrupted? Any suggestions how to get increasing naval budget?

I also had two succesful war against China, both times I completely destroyed their fleets and harrassed their cargo convoys, and once against russia, where they gave up after 8 month being blockaded by my subs at their ports on the far east.

What are you seeing in the economics tab that takes up the money?

[GrimReaperHUN]

What are you seeing in the economics tab that takes up the money? [/quote]

You mean, the finances?
Annual economic growth: +6.8%
GDP: 24,850,560,000
Naval Budget Percent: 8%
Monthly Naval Budget: 177,088,00

Total expenses of the navy about 198,319,400

I have no idea how to increase the naval budget so I have positive income. If I scrap ships, my navy become inferior to the chinese navy. Devs should decrease the cost of ammunition and fuel...

[Lipi]

There are three ways to increase budget:

1. Increase GDP since your naval budget is a percentage of that
2. Random events that increase naval budget by x%
3. Go to war which will temporarily double your budget - this will go back to half if war ends

You have to either go for quantity over quality or learn to beat the enemy navy with lesser no. of ships but superior quality and formation. And sometimes scrapping older ships is a better idea if their tonnage isn't relevant anymore.

Also, putting your at-sea ships to "invade" or "defend" rather than "sea control" drastically decreases cost. Though I doubt it'll completely negate -22 mil.

[GrimReaperHUN]

Originally posted by Lipi:

There are three ways to increase budget:

1. Increase GDP since your naval budget is a percentage of that
2. Random events that increase naval budget by x%
3. Go to war which will temporarily double your budget - this will go back to half if war ends

You have to either go for quantity over quality or learn to beat the enemy navy with lesser no. of ships but superior quality and formation. And sometimes scrapping older ships is a better idea if their tonnage isn't relevant anymore.

Also, putting your at-sea ships to "invade" or "defend" rather than "sea control" drastically decreases cost. Though I doubt it'll completely negate -22 mil.

Thank you. I always prefer quality over quantity, but I'm a bit of trouble with Japan. Except BBs and DDs, what other ships do I need if I start at 1910? What is the best build to have the best quality I can have?

[GrimReaperHUN]

There is no best per say. Each player approaches this problem in there own way.
Personally i form a basic doctrine, then, from that i can design ships that fit that
and tactics to use with them.
My number one doctrine right now is "fast and accurate". It centres on
40 knot BC's screened by 40 knot DD's. Anything i can't sink i can run away from.
This doctrine also enables me to kite from long range fairly safely, especially if
i "rush" radar.
:lunar2019grinningpig: [/quote]

40 knots are a bit too far away for me in 1914. My fastest BC can do 30.6 which is plenty. Also, my own doctrine is to trying to design the best, most effective ships for their own role.
-I made my BBs are quiet slow but very, very accurate with fast-firing secondaries. Currently not gonna use larger guns than 14 inch.
-I designed anti-destroyer Destroyers, around 35 knot speed, 4.9 inch gunds, a few one or dual torpedo tubes to make nem maneuvering and 2 inch secondaries. Using the best reloading system and turret rotation device.
-My battlecruisers designed to support my BBs. Have 11 or 12 inch guns, 7 inch secondary and a few 2 and 4 inch secondary for smaller ships. With their speed I usually using the Scissor maneuver, while my BB got the enemy battleship's attention, my BC can hit hard from relative safe distance
-Designed my japanese heavy cruisers like "pocket battleships". Have 10 or 11 inch guns and plenty of secondary with a small bit higher speed than a BB. At convoy raiding, they're excellent to draw the enemy warships attention while my DD goes for convoy hunting.

And I also trying to keep my fleet at relatively low number, to keep the maintenance, ammunition and fuel cost low even if they're at defensive or in limited.

[Lipi]

Originally posted by GrimReaperHUN:

And I also trying to keep my fleet at relatively low number, to keep the maintenance, ammunition and fuel cost low even if they're at defensive or in limited.

Limited causes experience/veterancy of crew to plummet, keep that in mind. I do defensive, too.

[GrimReaperHUN]

Originally posted by Lipi:

Originally posted by GrimReaperHUN:

And I also trying to keep my fleet at relatively low number, to keep the maintenance, ammunition and fuel cost low even if they're at defensive or in limited.

Limited causes experience/veterancy of crew to plummet, keep that in mind. I do defensive, too.

I'll have them in defensive role now, but even with this, I still have decreasing naval budget every month... I have no idea, why. I have 47 ships in 1917, always choosing the +GDP or +Naval Budget options but it's just looks like an idiotic solution for me. Devs should focus on this as well...

[Vuld_Edone]

Uh, this is weird.
My 1915 France has $27bn GDP (+6.8%) and a 185mn monthly naval budget (total expenses $179bn). But all of my sliders are on 100%... and even with 12 new BBs in the works I've a surplus of $5mn.
So basically you should be fine, your monthly naval budget is fine. Your problem is in expenses.

Here, two possibilities:
- Transport losses. If you lose transports monthly, that's likely the cause.
- Fleet repairs. A high-tech BB banged up is extremely expensive (like commissioning can be).
Both are easy to check in the finances' details.
If it's the former, the solution would be to leave your ships at port. The 1.04 mechanics will do a far better job at protecting your transports than any 1.05 fleet division ever will.
If it's the latter, go for more but smaller, low-tech ships. You'll still dominate the seven seas but damages won't bankrupt you.
(Note: ship repair bankrupting anyone would be more of a 1930+ problem... hard to believe in the 1910s.)

As a last note, in peacetime my budget supports 12 BBs (28kt, 1907-1913 refits) and 12 DDs (you would want CA/CLs as well but, France hulls...). In wartime it can get as high as 18 BBs, 12 CAs and 24-36 DDs.
I say that to say you should be able to align quite a fleet with the budget you have, especially given Japan only has to care for one sea.
(Oh and, my ships are stuck at 21-24kn, with only DDs going at... 31-32kn. Speed is expensive.)

I guess I'll start a 1910 Japan campaign to see what's going on.

[Lipi]

lol in my last 1.08 campaign I was in 1909 I think. I was playing France and I had some 20 BBs, 12 CAs, 17-18 CLs and 15 TBs. My peacetime budget was 2 mil negative but war every 1 year or so would give me a 10-11 digit compensation so that my total surplus would be in several billions. So I was doing fine.

[GrimReaperHUN]

Originally posted by Vuld_Edone:

I guess I'll start a 1910 Japan campaign to see what's going on.

Yeah, I would like to see what other players do to success with Japan. Also, I'm in peac time now, not losing any transport. And not repairing any ship. I literally keep my fleet under 50 ships, but I go for the quality, doing a bit expensive ships, only building 2 or maximum 3 from each class (especially at BB or BC). Because of the high quality and crew training I'm manage to win 2 war against the russians and got their sakhalin island with their port as well.

But now I have no clue why my naval budget decreasing.

The same reason I'm afraid to play with ANY european faction. USA is the best so far with their constantly rising economy.

[Vuld_Edone]

Okay, so far only 1910-15 but... I don't get it.
Japan's GDP (in-game) in 1915 is $35bn. You have $25bn. That... I don't know how your GDP could have tanked so badly so quickly.

But beyond that, I also don't know how you can't stabilize your budget.
I only get 4% of that GDP, so my naval budget is actually $116mn. Yet I end up with only $112mn expenses, with all sliders at 100%.
That's 6 BBs, 4 BCs, 10 DDs which was enough to smoke Russia twice. $4mn surplus in peace time, $61-72mn surplus in wartime.

So I can't reproduce your situation. Might be a bug, or a death spiral. You have no blockade, no transport bleed, there should be no reason for your budget to plummet.
How far did your campaign go, in years?
It's weird, this falling budget sounds familiar but it has been a while so I can't quite tell...

[GrimReaperHUN]

Originally posted by Vuld_Edone:

So I can't reproduce your situation. Might be a bug, or a death spiral. You have no blockade, no transport bleed, there should be no reason for your budget to plummet.
How far did your campaign go, in years?
It's weird, this falling budget sounds familiar but it has been a while so I can't quite tell...

So I got blockaded by both russia and china now. And I don't know, how to managed that. Because I have no clue where blockade occure and how to prevent this. I also losing cargo ships now as I'm in a war against russia, 3rd time now. But even if it's a peace time, I have only around 17mil naval budget every month, which is not enough.

[Maxwell]

I usually do this with all countries, worked pretty well with japan too, which is to start the campaign in 1890, and have no ships whatsoever, not even torpedo boats, and just focus on increasing the economy as much as possible.
I'll essentially skip 10-15 years without getting into any wars and just accumulating money and GDP.
I'll also end up having superior tech compared to most other countries since I can just invest all the money into merchant vessels, crew training and tech and still never be close to losing money.
And paying off countries to not declare war on you is rather cheap all things considered, and after those 15 years or so, your peace time budget will likely be larger than most other nation's wartime budget.