A 1900 start on Japan

[Izargon]

Not a complaint, but more an inquiry about general strategy for the campaign start.

My present game at time of this writing is in 1911. I'll provide a quick rundown of things so far.

I design my own starter fleet, this allows me to get some ships designed mostly for conquests. The starter BB for this game was close to 20k tons, had at least 6 at the start.
For cruisers, focused on light cruiser at roughly 2500 tons, had 27+ at start.
The heavy cruisers were close to 3500 tons apiece , but I only built a few at the start.
I dont typically use torp boats, jumping with destroyers, these were around 700 tons each iirc, built 60+ at the start.

Anyway, my general conquest targets are down by New Zealand and over to South America in general. This game I grabbed Vanatu, Tonga, ecuador, Peru, Uraguay initially in the first 5 years.

Fast forward a few years, focused on tech, eventually go into a war with Spain and grabbed two territories in Africa and acquired Southern Brazil and Chile.

But China is getting bigger and I'm wondering if it would be better for me to simply go for Russia at the start and worry about attaining ports later...

Would appreciate some good thoughts on the issue. Main issue is keeping China from getting too large [taking much of Russia n the region... Maybe I play too cautiously in general, but I would like some feedback on how any of you handle your 1900 start campaigns.

[chiyen]

For Japan (1890), go for

1) China, always, rush them and eliminate it on the map.
Japan can match China fleet in the beginning, but China has Huge population and big army that if you cannot completely eliminate it on the map, it might start endless land counter attack with its huge population base.

You will have a safe zone in East Asia homeland after you have done this as well.

(Vice Versa, when playing China, always take Japan out of the map as the 1st action to take, if you can. But China army may expand itself to SEA even when the Navy is not doing anything at all, which Japan can't).

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2) Europeans with weak presence in SEA and Asia as whole, with almost no supply and long travel for their homeland fleet to rescue their colonies outside in Asia - Russia, Spain, Germany (make sure you can peace talk with Germany later); and later Italy.

Also block the Suez Canal / Red Sea when you doing it. Thus, they have to go through the south of Africa when trying to rescue their Asia colonies (if no new ships pops up locally). A happy trip that takes about a year for them to do so.

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3) Then it's your choice.
Go into the Mediterranee Sea and dominate it,
or take on UK and France with their colonies in Asia; especially India (UK) with a large population base and oil, if you can. Thake sabotages their TR since they got many tiny islands in the Pacific Ocean, when their TR has to travel to (and ports without any ship in, that suffers port attacks).

[Stealth IA]

You can wear down the other nations without fear of a land army.

China had a great army but a poor navy. Sink the china's fleet to make the army less effective and the provinces could defend themselves

[MasterFool]

I can't speak for Japan yet, but in my China campaign, I made friends (even full 100% ally at a point) with Japan but they broke the alliance and I had dreadnoughts. Then let them slowly whittle down and eventually they pushed into WAR, which they didn't survive. In that time Spain and Germany were my primary foes and I took all of Indonesia, Phillipines and South Sea islands from them. When Japan became my foe, I was already vastly more powerful than them and they weren't even a challenge.

Oddly, France cuddled up to me early on and really tried hard to play nice with me, I guess they really wanted to keep French IndoChina. This was another campaign that died due to incompatible updates of the main game. I was doing pretty well...

I'm just pointing out that if you don't have to go to war with China immediately, the same might apply to Japan. I think early wars between these nations weaken them in the face of the Euro-Colonial powers and makes them vulnerable to later domination by them. You also can't discount Russia. If the AI is playing Russia properly (something it does in about 1 of 4 times by my current count) it's a force to be reckoned with. You kind of have to feel this out as you play in the first couple of years.

[Izargon]

Yeah, I've been doing some testing of ship building, one thing I tend to use a flask on is the ship construction from near the start to get rid of more ship flaws. In my more advanced Japan game, I've found that building in 2s tends to work better than building 6+ in a batch...

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Thank you for your thoughts, but since it is a 1900 start, the diplomacy tends to be fairly neutral [random opponent, not that it changes much], so I take it Historical opponent is a good setting to keep then?

Very true, I tend to like to prepare before I do go to war.. I will try it in a later game...

One of my America games, iirc, China got removed in the 1920s... Japan did most of the work along with other nations and the US just came in at the end and took their port access away.

I think my biggest issue is deciding when to actually go to war, because theres this "Government wants to declare war... Yes or No?"

I usually hit no because half the time I don't look at politics the turn before, and its also likely they'll just pay me off... Which is annoying.

Reason I like playing Japan is that the dreadnought design for the 1910s and 1920s is really nice with casement places and such..

Thanks again for your input.

[hurepoix]

There is few advice we can give you, since you are already advanced in your campaign. I was close to not answer at all for this reason. However if you start an other campaign as Japan or China, may be you can try it differtently, such as starting in 1890 for exemple.
You can completly bypass predreadnought and most time CA I II III and IV (at V1.7).
Pacific should not by your top priority target. I usually prefer to target French indochina and brits at Borneo. Think in term of sea for your conquest. For exemple Indochina, sarawak brunei, Singapore and Sumatra are all dependence of south east asia. However for Philippines Luzon and mindanao are or two differents sea.
Lock the strait even if it is with TB (and flee if combat occurs). Singapore and in option other indonesia strait. Aden suez Bosphorus Gibraltar (adriatic in option) Dover (baltic and orcades in option)
It will slow down and weaknen European powers answer to your agressions. I usually fight China germany and Spain in a second round, then Pacific and benghal gulf were the brits are again the foe. Brits transport are vulnerables due to the empire extension. I usually pay attention to ruin my ennemies business.

V1.7 is a bit different from 1.6x and I tend to use more 5'' guns than 4 '' on my CLS. starting in 1890 I manly use belted cruisers at max tonnages available (I dont care about 19.5 kn they are good and ships even at 15 % engine efficiency) later I add 23 kn CL 2, and of course TB until DD become available. TB are use as scout and strait lockers, so non fighting ships with min beam max draft. For fighting ships it is the inverse.

Last and it worth for any country. Ignore events that propose you to up GDP (except if alternative in negative for your plan), refuse events that propose you to lower naval budget, always choose naval budget over GDP if both are in competition in the same event.

Inderect exception is the govermnent type. Japan start as a constutional monarchy. Usually natinalist are on power. However if you accumulate too much trouble the right party can take the power. It will result indirectly a GDP growth at expense of naval budget. This one is not harmful for you because it really works like intended.

[chiyen]

Just played the V 1.7.0.0 as Japan 1890.

It may be nerfed of on money, but under the new system, the AI China tends to delivery all its initial fleet to somewhere like Atlantics or Africa (AI Japan do so as well when I play Spain), leaving China's homeland totally unguarded (mothballed all my Japan ship excepting one to avoid 0 ship kickout, menace level 0).

So... can occupy some large China homeland pieces before its initial fleet sail back, and newly built one pops up from its homeland ports.

[foster.r.l]

I'm also playing an 1890 Japan game as my first 1.7 campaign. It's just past 1920 and I just eliminated China after having first taken over all of France's SE Asia holdings as well as taking the Philippines and all Spain's western Pacific provinces in two prior wars. Personally, I'm loving this version of the game...other than a couple hiccups, it's been great.

[Izargon]

Yeah, but I've also been restarting a fair bit, so your thoughts come in handy...

I view 1890 as more difficult because you dont already have some mainland territory, maybe I should consider that start... I think the reason why I've gone with 1900 and not 1890 for Japan is that you get more ports which means more initial capacity and possibility for an early jump into taking territories...

Might have to revisit that earlier start...

Thank you all for your thoughts and feedback. While one game is into the mid 19teens, you've given me considerations to put into practice.

Thanks again.

[chiyen]

Well, start in 1890 and play well, can give you a much better 1900 Jan game starting status.

[Izargon]

Started in 1890, but I do have an 1890 america campaign as well thats into 1950...

As for the 1900 Japan one, its now 1925, Eastern Asia is Japans, unfortunately China is still present there too, holding vladivostok and territory...

I had to take a break from Russia because Mexico of all places decided it wanted Japan instead of its neighbor to the north to take over some land. Japan now has western Mexico to deal with. Mexico apparently bought some ships from the British. Me being stupid, I attempted a battle, but got reminded why I usually just auto resolve. Too many enemy ships for one. Was a bit laggy in the fight. It was this series of takeovers that I discovered that, yes, one could withdraw from a battle and still successfully take things over [not the same battle but oh well].

So now I'm working on further expansion of the fleet/dockyards because the ships are getting massive, and only having 400k tons capacity is not big enough. Means I can only build 4 BBs or BCs at a time... Really should work on cruisers and smaller ships too, been a few years since those.


The 1890 Japan, well, I've taken over south Philippines, the Carolinas and Guam. Also managed to takeover that German port in China, so now theres a gateway for a land invasion.. About 1909 in that one. I have to say the 1890 start is harder, but It does teach me about more fleet management. Also managed to grab Madagascar, Hawaii and several islands in the south Pacific.

Thanks again for the advice and thoughts. Its helped a lot.

[hurepoix]

Last exemples I found below, japan in 1914 and China in 1920, both from a 1890 start at legendary setting.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3385408530
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3399819354

[Izargon]

I like the bottom picture... But, would Japan really need to go to war if she already had that much territory? Methinks not so much.

Small tip; you can go from Asia to Europe through the north polar area, game doesnt stop you, but I think you need to do that manually. I mean, I didn't have issues going over the top of Canada with a force. I would think the same would work for EurAsia.

[hurepoix]

Originally posted by Izargon:

I like the bottom picture... But, would Japan really need to go to war if she already had that much territory? Methinks not so much.

It depend what is your goal. If it is more or less empire of Japan goal, I can stop here. If it is global domination goal should be to repaint the map before 1940.

[chiyen]

Originally posted by Izargon:

Small tip; you can go from Asia to Europe through the north polar area, game doesnt stop you, but I think you need to do that manually. I mean, I didn't have issues going over the top of Canada with a force. I would think the same would work for EurAsia.

You can, but takes 1 year from US West to US East.

[chiyen]

Originally posted by Izargon:

I like the bottom picture... But, would Japan really need to go to war if she already had that much territory? Methinks not so much.

I think this is a war game, not Everybody should stay in peace and make all humankind friends world.

< UAD Camp, Japan V, 1893_07, Conquered China>
- Diff: Legd, no MOD, no auto battle, XCOM Ironman Mode
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3402424203
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3402424295
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3402424367