Research- tech missing / trees need re-balance?

[hashishmaria]

Well, I play as Germany, starting 1890. I run at 100% research rate right from the start and didn't sped up anything for the largest part of the campaign. Now it's 1911 and the game says my technology is "very advanced" and I seem to be mostly on pair with the technology level in custom battles (+-1 tech).
But for some reason it seems I lag behind in two crucial areas: Boilers and Cruiser hulls. More precisely- Semi-oil tech should be available by 1907, I haven't discovered it yet AND this was the only tech I sped up for almost a year. The same goes for the battlecruiser hull. It should be available in 1907 as well.
I don't know if the guide here on stream is correct, but according to it I should have had the semi-oil tech for some 4-5 techs now. It also seems I still need some 7 techs before I will get the BC hull (so approx. 1913-1914).
And yet I'm just researching some absolutely useless submarine tech, which is marked as 1926...

This is not the first time I've encountered this "bug". Last campaign as AUS-HU (some 2 patches ago) I had the same problem. I went all the way to 1920 and no Semi-oil. And I only unlocked the BC hull somewhere around 1914...
If this trend continues, I will never have all the boilers and cruiser hull techs by 1950...

I also wonder, what the actual AI tech level is. Because Italy, UK and Aus-Hu are average and France is very behind. But average in comparison to what? They really do not field any design that would suggest their tech level is actually somewhere around 1910. For that sake I haven't even met a single AI Dreadnought yet...

So I think the research needs a little tweaking-
1) The slider set at 100% should let you keep the pace with tech availability in random battles.
2) It should be possible to set the slider even over 100%, so you could actually outpace the real timeline. (though the cost would rise exponentially)
3) AI should focus more on research. For now I really doubt it is able to reach early WW2 tech by 1950- especially when getting spanked over and over.
4) Tech cost in specific trees should use some re-balancing. Especially cruiser hulls and boilers if you ask me...

[Rear]

Just to add to this, since they added the new 'Crew Salvaging' techs it's really hard to reach any type of Citadel past the initial starting level 1 tech (in an 1890 start).

[Mobzonk]

Overall tech research rate is ok, but some techs come late within their categories, like battlecruisers and oil firing. Heavy guns research is a bit slow. Fortunately this is the sort of thing that can be balanced over time as development proceeds.

[blackvoid]

Can't you allocate a priority to those to speed them up?

[hashishmaria]

Originally posted by Lumpus:

Semi-oil seems to appear @ 1910 (historically too late) and regular oil is 5-7 years later (for me). Agree on BCs... it's 1920 in my 'normal' game and they still haven't appeared

1914 and still no semi-oil...

[godspeedthunder]

Dartis did make most of the changes I suggesting a few months ago but the final one never got implemented, hopefully it will be soon. Here it is just in case-

Here is a revised research tree tweak to match up with custom battle time periods-

Unless it has changed I believe that there are 35 technologies in the boiler tree and many of them are random as to when they come out.

The fuel and boiler techs need to be placed in specific order close to as follows-

Forced boiler 11th
Semi oil 12th
Oil 1 15th
Balanced boiler 20th
Oil 2 31st



The cruiser tree needs to be sped up by 30%. The modern cruisers currently come in around 1930 instead of 1921.

The battlecruiser 1 comes in around 1916 instead of 1907.




The destroyers tree needs to be sped up by 20%.

In 1915 it is 1400t where it should be 1700t.




Control station needs to be sped up by 10%.




Armour quality needs to be sped up by 25%




Internals protection needs to be sped up by 10%




Citadel 2 and 3 need moving from internals protection to armour forging (or vice versa with citadel 4 and 5).

If they are moved to armour forging then armour forging tree will need speeding up significantly.




Rangefinders needs to be sped up by 10-15%.




Gun layout needs to be sped up by 15%




Big guns needs to be sped up by 5%.




Shells need to be sped up by 5%.




Explosives needs to be sped up by 5%.

This will match all of the techs to the custom battle techs by year. You can then choose to slow down the entire tree if you so desire.

[godspeedthunder]

Originally posted by Akhorahil:

Originally posted by godspeedthunder:

Dartis did make most of the changes I suggesting a few months ago but the final one never got implemented, hopefully it will be soon. Here it is just in case-

I agree with most of this, and Hull Strengthening should probably be slowed down or otherwise nerfed, because right now, you prioritize it and then get almost-Dreadnoughts (everything but turbines) in maybe 1895.

Gun Layout is really frustrating, because since Wing Turrets are awful anyway, being allowed 8 of them when you want 0 is not much to be happy about.

Everything is based on no prioritisation and matching it to custom battles.

I think the only way to prevent rushing dreads is to add new passive techs in between the hull unlocks to make rushing it harder.

Or simply just reducing the impact of prioritisation so nothing can be rushed to any significant degree. This would probably make more sense.

Prevents ww1 radar and 1900 oxygen torp shenanigans.

[godspeedthunder]

They definitely do a better job than they used to, but I just encountered a super battleship with a turbo electric engine lol