formations and follow logic are still infuriating and trash.

[SkollUlfr]

still cant select a group of ships and tell them to go in a direction without them *&%^)(*ing off in random directions because they try to follow random other ships with ZERO sense.

even breaking every ship out of divisions doesnt stop them being stupid.

how is this beta problem still a problem?

[CheapSushi]

One huge difference would be if ships did their order on the specific ship you click, If you click "Follow", it should follow the exact ship you select Follow on, regardless of position in the Division instead of the LAST ship in the division of whatever you click. This would allow for more intricate formations and less of a chance of the AI going to an absolute extreme to try to play a gigantic follow the division scheme.

[SkollUlfr]

Originally posted by CheapSushi:

This would allow for more intricate formations and less of a chance of the AI going to an absolute extreme to try to play a gigantic follow the division scheme.

cant even select a group of ships and tell them to go a direction without having to watch a stupid ballet display. more complicated would require fixing this.

[Hidden Gunman]

There is also a horrid clusterf**k issue at battle start. Lead ship in a columnstarting at very low speed, following ships at near the set speed, ships ramming each other, needlessly circling etc.

[SkollUlfr]

Originally posted by Hidden Gunman:

There is also a horrid clusterf**k issue at battle start. Lead ship in a columnstarting at very low speed, following ships at near the set speed, ships ramming each other, needlessly circling etc.

this is what is going to underpin the supposed pvp...

[MasterFool]

The bad start is caused by the preliminary setup 'AI' (the "I" is very loosely applied) in the division building. The divisions are improperly built from the get go because the organizational filtering process seems to be trying to 'balance' the divisions based on some Ouji-board selection process that accomplishes some goal nobody seems to be able to fathom. I dare the DEVS to tell us what goal it's trying to meet, I don't think they can. The ships are at bizzare speed settings, crashing about, incorrect locations in the div 'lines' like the ships just magically appeared and hadn't been in sailing formation for days on end prior to the encounter, etc. etc.

In truth, it could be a simple logic flow concept to make a division. There can be MANY ways you might want to build a division but without asking the player what logic flow they want, you basically get one and only one: the mess we currently have.

The basic logic flow I use when building my divisions at start normally depend on 3 kinds of major engagements types I might be facing:

1. Chase, I'm going to be chasing down target(s).
Logic Flow would be:
1. Speed (All ships faster than target(s) would be in first 3 divisions)
2. Ship Class (Each division would be DD's, CL's, and BC's/BB's... CA's are too slow)
3. Division size maximum (Only for slower ships that can't chase the target set to just 'follow' Div 1.)

2. Engagement, we WILL be fighting ship(s) to ship(s)
1. Ship Class
2. Ship Age (or Speed if Age doesn't matter and all ships are roughly compliant with class)
3. Armor Levels (Heavier Armored ships should lead lighter ones to take initial fire)

3. Overmatch, my ships are overmatched (likely to be a retreating fight)
1. Ship Class
2. Gun Range (largest gunned ships should be set to rear of each div)
3. Speed (Faster divs can either engage more quickly or cover the escape of slower divs)

This is the most flexible and commonly used 'basic' thinking I do when starting the game. I pause immediately and form my divisions according to more detailed logic than shown above, but *IF* the AI asked me which kind of battle I think I'll be facing from those three options, it would save me a TON of initial work. I'd just be moving ships about if the AI has made a mistake. All ships should be set to max speed of 1kt slower than the max speed of the slowest ship in the fleet for the first 30 seconds of the game. This would give the ships more time to settle in to proper order and then go to max speed of slowest ship after 30 seconds unless the player has already overridden the default speed settings of a div/ship in a div or an assigned role keeps a div reacting to another div.

Also, the game needs to start fleets at least 2-3 km beyond maximum 'spotting' range. This starting ships already in gun range is rather dumb and with functioning Radar, it's beyond dumb. Give the fleets a chance to settle down. In late game, rounds are regularly flying in the first couple seconds of the engagement.

[Hidden Gunman]

Quite frankly, this issue was fixed till the latest build. I have to turn the sound down to avoid the deafening clanging from my ships playing goat simulator amongst themselves.

[MasterFool]

HG, I agree, it was getting much better until this last update. I found myself making fewer and fewer changes to the divisions. I was still noticing the following major errors:

1. The ships were incorrectly started in positions that did not follow their position in the division. Ship A, B & C were started on the ocean in B, C, & A or some other odd setup, causing the keystone cops ritual. This was getting rare but it still happened from time to time.

2. Ships that had fast acceleration would just 'rear end' the slower accelerating ship in front of it. There's no excuse for this as the trailing ships would be matching speed the ship in front of them is ACTUALLY going, not their target speed. This would resolve this issue.

3. Ships of radically different speeds were put in the same division. A 25 year old BB with the max speed of 26 kts being placed in the lead of a 3 BB division where the latter two had 30 kts speed maximums. This was a regular issue. (I tended to put old BB's in with CA's in this case because the speeds were a closer match and the BB could attract any attention and take a pounding better than the CA's could.)

So yes, some of the issues were being fixed but not all. Some bad ones remained.

[vanDyck]

What we would need are especially better formation movents and turns like:
-full formation doing a 90° turn to change from line to colum, good to evade torps
-battle turn
-ships in line formation turning at the same spot and not following the actual movement