Trash game

[nightmare]

whats the point in having all the ASW tech? It doesn't help at all i lose half my fleet from just two enemy subs.

[Nitemares]

yep.

its a complaint of many.

There is a mod on nexus that removes subs and a few other changes that you maybe interested in:

:dreadnought improvement program" by BrotherMunro

[Kuma]

Originally posted by nightmare:

whats the point in having all the ASW tech? It doesn't help at all i lose half my fleet from just two enemy subs.

You are doing it wrong. To counter submarines, you research mines, not ASW tech. The second leading cause of U-Boats sunk in WWI were mines.

After 1930, you switch from researching mines to researching radar. The leading cause of U-Boats sunk in WWII were sunk by aircraft equipped with radar.

[RipoffPingu]

are you using escorts? i've never experienced subs killing more than one capital ship at once, and even when that happens its a statistical anomaly (more often than not the most that happens to me is a dead destroyer, and most the time the subs die in the process as well)

[Guerillia07]

using escorts is more or less useless, because the subs managing alwas to to sink your newes and most protected capital ships. even how many your escorts or how good your asw is.

[RipoffPingu]

Originally posted by Guerillia07:

using escorts is more or less useless, because the subs managing alwas to to sink your newes and most protected capital ships. even how many your escorts or how good your asw is.

not using enough escorts then, or you're massively overexaggerating

[chiyen]

Must be a small "fleet", and with not enough DD / CL in total.

When having 300+ DD / CL all over the world, enemy subs are just free VP bonus.

[Nutcase]

Originally posted by Kuma:

Historical references

Weren't small ships with low tonnage and second-line components like Corvettes and Destroyer Escorts/Frigates a significant ASW factor?

The game sort of lets you build the latter, but it's fairly hard to make anything under a kt after 1925 or so. Especially with the game killing expansion engines so quickly.

[mlangsdorf]

All of my task forces are groups of 4 BBs, 4 CLs, and 6 DDs. I've never lost a ship to submarines and as chiyen says, enemy subs are just bonus VP. My escorts don't even have the absolute latest depth charges. If you're consistently losing ships to submarines, how are you setting up your task forces?

[Nutcase]

On the topic of depth charges, I just hastily cobbled together an "ASW only" boat that's basically a minimized British Destroyer III hull with 1930s tech, that probably dies to anything with a 3D model.

26 knots, Sonar III and RDF gives it an ASW rating of 405. Depth Charges take it to 435(I) or 472(IV) Boat costs 5 million, with an extra .7 for the 'full' ASW kit.

Add a Gen I Radar for another .7 and it goes to 1174.

Point being: Something something "Perfect is the enemy of good," something. I rarely go for the highest level of depth charges I can get for example.

[mlangsdorf]

My mid-generation fleet DD in 1935 is 1800 tons, 37 knots, Sonar III, Depth Charges III, about $160 million as new build with an ASW of 840. My BBs all have Sonar II (mostly for torpedo protection) and have an ASW of 88. Light cruiser ASW depends on the generation, but 400 to 1600 looks like the range. The pair of CAs attached to each task force for hunting down fleeing light cruisers have ASW 720 despite only having Sonar II and Depth Charges I. Task force average comes out to 600+.

The game's help is unclear on how ASW interacts with submarine attack and stealth ratings, but a super fleet submarine has attack and stealth of less than 20 so hopefully being 30x ahead is useful.

[Drakken]

I have played this game for 1300 hours; and i never had any issue with any subs, well once when i have lost a modern BB in a task force of BB with no escort.
If you have at least a couple of DD in your task a force you should be ok.
I wish i could see your game, because i am sure you are doing something wrong OP.

[DoctorDanny]

Subs and mines suck the fun out of the game by removing player agency over losses. They should either be optional or simulated in the battles. I usually ragequit my campaigns over unstoppable losses incurred by subs. Not to mention the times the campaign gets 'stuck in a loop' with entire fleets locked in perpetual conflict with one or two submarines every single turn.

[Hidden Gunman]

I made the point yesterday about protecting transports, particularly in far off territories. Same applies vs subs. Escorts for fleets, lots of dd and cl sitting around in ports.

[Hidden Gunman]

Originally posted by mlangsdorf:

All of my task forces are groups of 4 BBs, 4 CLs, and 6 DDs. I've never lost a ship to submarines and as chiyen says, enemy subs are just bonus VP. My escorts don't even have the absolute latest depth charges. If you're consistently losing ships to submarines, how are you setting up your task forces?

My general task forces are half that, but are as fast as I can reasonably make them. Current game I'm in early 1929, minimum ship speed is 27 knots, and I'm in thr process of upgrading the entire fleet to 28-30 knots.

I have a very strong feeling that ship and fleet speed is the key, rather than ASW. ASW kills subs, speed outruns them.

[RipoffPingu]

Originally posted by DoctorDanny:

Subs and mines suck the fun out of the game by removing player agency over losses. They should either be optional or simulated in the battles. I usually ragequit my campaigns over unstoppable losses incurred by subs. Not to mention the times the campaign gets 'stuck in a loop' with entire fleets locked in perpetual conflict with one or two submarines every single turn.

they make the gameplay better because they prevent just spamming capital ships and force you to use at least a minimum amount of escorts (both subs and mines are a non-issue as long as you make good screen ships and don't have an overly top-heavy fleet)