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In 1953, the torpedoes are not useless with their 26Km max range, but they are greatly outmatched by heavy guns. In 1953, the guns are opening fire at 46Km and the ships are killing each other, at a range of 26 to 36Km; 26Km is considered point blank.
I am using 400mm to 510+mm, kind of flying topedoes, their accuracy is good and the reiceving end, has to dodge 5000+ rounds
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3271849905
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3271849479
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3271848790
Those are by far not my best ships, i think one is a refited 1921 BB
I have btw just lost one, sunk at a range of 30+ Km with a top hit from an US BB, first salvo; most certainly a lucky hit while aiming another target, that's the problem when the guns are so powerfull, both side start shooting each other when you still have a loading black screen and all the ships are packed.
Imo to begin with a campaign should stop in 1950, but this is another story.
Oxygen torps are OP in UAD. In WoW's, as Jingles says, you can see them from low-earth orbit... which is how they should be. Their trails are very visible during the day and they make a ton of noise on hydro. In UAD, they are barely more detectable than electrics (which is what I run because the AI reacts perfectly and dodges oxy torps with ease, while I can't)
If you have Mk4+ guns, 7" or larger, you should be POUNDING ships at ranges beyond what most torpedoes can launch at. Most deck torps should be out of action against a well armed fleet fairly quickly. If you know your opponent has long ranged torps, but your guns out range them, fight a retreating fight until you've hammered him down a bit and you can control the range. Then stay out of range and pummel him.
And use pause when you spot torpedoes. It's really the only way to get your advantage back on the AI which maneuvers instantly to avoid incoming torpedoes. The AI is really good at dodging torps.
That's if they survive long enough under my gun range of 40+km to reach my torp range.
Operation Hailstone, the only fleet action for an Iowa class. The operation is questionable since there was an aircraft carrier in range that could of done just as well. Everyone knows it was just an excuse for the Iowa's to engage in fleet action.
"Off of Truk Atoll on 16 February 1944, Iowa and New Jersey engaged the Japanese destroyer Nowaki at a range of 35,700 yards (32.6 km) and straddled (one shot on Nowaki's port side, and the second on her starboard), setting the record for the longest-ranged straddle in history (although not a single hit was claimed)."
"The 16"/50 caliber's advanced fire control was designed to allow it to fire accurately at its maximum range, which exceeded any opposing ship's effective firing range. However, this proved not to be possible. The US soon learned that projectile dispersion was not something fire control, no matter how advanced, could solve (this remains true: modern guns with more advanced radar cannot fire accurately from maximum range, being limited to a shorter accurate effective range). Several live-firing tests were conducted by Iowa-class battleships in which the 16"/50 displayed shockingly low hit rates from the extreme ranges it was designed to fight from, even with its very advanced radar. Most notably USS Iowa bombarded the former battleship target Nevada over five days, with an extremely low hit rate, failing to sink the target ship, demonstrating that a ship armed with these guns could not fire accurately at an enemy ship while remaining out of range of the enemy's guns."
Gun dispersion was quite differnt between the WWII used BB-main guns, somewhere between less then 100m-200m (38cm SK C/34, 170m on 35km) up to over 1,5km (early richelieu class main guns), so it can be influnenced by gun construction and gun/propellant/shell setup.
If you would bring it to the max, you could produce shells like the german did for their paris gun in WWI, each shell had a slightly different diameter to match the barrell errosion. Of course, hard to manage and expansive on a BB that used different types of ammo.
Overall, ingame accuracy (and armor penetration and stored number of shells) is way higher as in reality, probarbly to make the game more exciting, as a BB duel of well designed ships would mostly end in a draw with light damage to both sides after spending all ammo...
Correct, and knowing all that you know, you stated that hitting a target at 35km is reasonable.
It is not "reasonable". The maximum range of the 16"/50 is 38km. Shell dispersion would make hitting anything at that range pure luck.
Oh and don't dodge their torpedoes with your fleet right behind ;)
Ingame, we have guns with way longer range, up to 50km and maybe even more. So hitting at 30-35km is around 2/3 to 3/4 of their maximum range.
With higher elevation (mostly limited by turret design), historic guns could fire much further, the german 40,6cm gun meant for the H-class, with coast artillery elevation, up to 56km depending on the used shell.
Yamatos guns reach up to ca. 42km. Littorios 38cm even up nearly 45km. There was more around as the US 16", who with their slow and heavy shell setup may suffer a bit in Range and accuracy compared to guns with a faster and lighter shell setup.
The second screenshot, is the second salvo with already a hit...
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3272100395
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3272100667
You can see all the bonus and malus on the left.
And as you can see they are firing back.
Its up to the player to work out tactics and strategy to counter torpedo spam or hyper accurate AI guns...that is exactly what the game is about, that's the challenge of it...not building bigger guns to punch holes in other ships ( which is simply a matter of tech research).
Granted that this is an SP game, so there isnt much point to the good player bad player debate,but the reality is that this game does require game play adaption to get better at it. It can be unforgiving until you learn that lesson...it might be fun running large groups of ships, till you get hit by an AI torpedo spam attack, everything clusters and half your fleet is wrecked. Then you realise that small fleets of six to ten mixed high performance ships may be better, and rather than trying to fight big decisive battles, a series of smaller engagements to wear down the AI in a sea area can be more effective and cheaper.
First: long range massed launch. This is from the 20k-10k zone with a lot of launchers.
If you have pushed your scout (not AI navigation command Scout, but functional scout division under player control) ahead of your main fleet, you'll see this attack coming in easily. It's okay if the AI concentrates it's long range gun fire on these ships under NORMAL (non-Cheat) rules as the ships can dodge since the AI will target the lead ship and you can evade and throttle jink the lead ship to mess up the enemy firing patterns. Occasionally you will get hit and have to retreat a lead scout ship (if it's not sunk outright, which is rare in Normal mode). Torp wise, you now have direction and incoming speed of the strike. The scout ships should be nimble enough to dodge even over a hundred torps if you are headed into them and you use pause to judiciously steer the ships around or between torpedo trails. The main fleet ships should have plenty of time to turn into or maneuver to avoid entirely the incoming wave, again, judicious use of pause and no more than semi-balanced rudders on ships (unbalanced can lead to problems here as your ships can drift sideways too much and into a torp path). I normally just change the tack of the main fleet and the incoming torps are fired at positions my fleet is no longer going toward.
Second: shorter ranged 10k-6k, fewer launchers. This can be more dangerous to your larger ships but they shouldn't even be in this range until you've sank about everything smaller than a CA. By this time, the only incoming torps should be from CA's or larger and unless the AI is using torpedo barges, which is possible but you should know about them already, you are up against scattered and sporadic launches. Here you will need to detach any ship under threat from a torp launch, and specifically guide it around the incoming torps. Usually, divisions won't have more than 1 or 2 ships under threat, and that's normally lead or second ship. Just have #3 take up lead for the division until the threat is passed and then re-division accordingly. I do this regularly for smaller fleet encounters. It's actually a bit fun, frustrating because it plays merry hell with your fleet organization and battle lines, but it's more challenging than just tossing shells at each other.
Pause is your friend in all of these conditions. If you actively avoid using pause, none of these tactics will change your outcomes by much. Maneuvering large masses of ships in precise ways is functionally impossible without pause. You can argue this is more realistic, but it isn't, Admirals left local command to the ships Captains and didn't micromanage them. They focused on the strategic points of the battle and left most of the ship handling to the Captains. They might designate a target for destruction, or give general orders to sail closer or further away from a noteable tactical issue, but something like evading a torpedo would be done by the Captain. What may be true is that it's more realistic in how the actual outcome would be, however, the game doesn't approach torpedoes with a realistic set of rules either so it's kind of a moot point.
As a general rule though, when you are in the enemy's engagement range for guns, you should be considering minor course changes every three to four of your main gun salvoes, and you should be considering speed changes every so often. These will throw off their gunnery, and make torpedo attacks much less likely. You know you have left these too late when a salvo brackets you, and it's time to maneuvre.
I always make at least 10° turns every 2-3 salvos of my fire (immediately after my shot), or if the enemy can fire faster, 2-3 of theirs just as they are likely to shoot. It forces their aiming to stay honest and can cause them to reset aiming as well.
I watch some popular YouTubers just keep sailing straight and get pummeled because they want to maximize their own hits but their ships pay the price as well. You're very correct on course changes mattering a great deal.