OMG these Destroyers!

[mrtree]

I've been playing as USA on my first run-through, I wanted the comfort of not having to worry about budget and tech level while I learn the game. It's about 1937-ish now and I just designed a new DD class (I called the prototype Dagger since my thinking is to make a small ship for in-close fighting).

Dear Lord, what hath I wrought?

These things are so much better than I thought they could be. At 3600 tons, and 36 knots speed, I was able to fit 5 turrets (3 fore, 2 aft) of triple-5 inch guns on them. Plus a few single 1.5" guns around the sides, and a token set of 4 (2x2) torpedo launchers on the rear. I wanted to minimize the torps since friendly fire is such a thing in this game, so there's just enough in case they are needed for a big thick-armoured BB.

In game, those fifteen - FIFTEEN! - guns just rain down shots on the target in an unrelenting shower, and when I put together a line of ten of them, I just snake them around and melt the enemies one by one. I've had engagements where the enemy fleet is down before I've even identified a single ship. I haven't needed the torps when matched against a BB.

Up until now, my pride has been my modern battleships which are fast and accurate enough to not need any support ships. But these new Destroyers can be built 10 or 15 at a time for so much less money and less time, and so far they are every bit as effective!

Did I just luck into a good design, or are Destroyers of the 1940's supposed to be this capable?

[G0emi]

I probably think its a mix of a good design and AI being behind tech by far. Depending on where you started, if its a long campaign and you started 1890 / 1900 and had your research at 100% all the time, chances are good the enemy AI is about 15 years behind you in technology at this point. So when you radar them at 20km they probably hardly even see you.
If you start a campaign at 1890 and have good economy to keep your research at 100% this starts to be obvious (on easier settings with "easier countries") even in the early 1900s :)
Just enjoy the fireworks~ thats what the game is for xD

[chiyen]

Originally posted by mrtree:

Did I just luck into a good design, or are Destroyers of the 1940's supposed to be this capable?

DD is good since pre 1900.

And in the event of damaged, they don't occupy much of dock tonnage, and repaired fast.

You don't have to worry about subs too.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3121523119
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3102741127

[NoG]

Originally posted by chiyen:

Originally posted by mrtree:

Did I just luck into a good design, or are Destroyers of the 1940's supposed to be this capable?

DD is good since pre 1900.

And in the event of damaged, they don't occupy much of dock tonnage, and repaired fast.

You don't have to worry about subs too.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3121523119
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3102741127

Do you notice a difference in campaign game play after the update because the economy seems more messed up yet your GDP looks insane

[mlangsdorf]

Watch out for enemy BB's getting a direct hit with a main gun on one of your destroyers. Doesn't happen much, but I recently had a 2,200 ton DD just disappear while charging a German super-BB.

Admittedly, the rest of the squadron and the CLs following it fed that BB about 40 torpedoes and it fell over, but it was still shocking to just lose a DD.

[chiyen]

Originally posted by NoG:

Do you notice a difference in campaign game play after the update because the economy seems more messed up yet your GDP looks insane

You can see that in the update interval, which was in mess after V 1.5.0.0,
New patches with intervals of 2~3 working days.

Definitely the developer is working on it.

[chiyen]

Originally posted by mlangsdorf:

Watch out for enemy BB's getting a direct hit with a main gun on one of your destroyers. Doesn't happen much, but I recently had a 2,200 ton DD just disappear while charging a German super-BB.

It can happen, originally the critical rules are:

1) Never sail in straight line when within range.
2) Do not have 2 or more of your ships on the same line or fire vs any one of enemy ship.
3) Do not slowdown too much after releasing torpedo and make turns.
Nevertheless, after V 1.5.0.3, TB / DD are more easily get shot,

And the most critical of all:
After V 1.5.0.3, enemy AI ships start to turn back and run away (gaining distance) far faster now, starting far away. (screening wings don't count, target for torpedo DD is the main division BB / CA, not the escorting company of TB . DD . CL)

So it's now unlikely to be able to do head-on torpedo raid with early day short range torpedoes (BB will just run away when they see a TB / DD approaching fast). Head-on torpedo raid was pretty viable and sure thing in V 1.4.1.1 and before, unless they got strong left-and-right wings to encirclement your ship.

[chiyen]

Originally posted by mrtree:

In game, those fifteen - FIFTEEN! - guns just rain down shots on the target

Some configuration for 2" mk.2 and mk.3.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3121523236

[Hidden Gunman]

Originally posted by mlangsdorf:

Watch out for enemy BB's getting a direct hit with a main gun on one of your destroyers. Doesn't happen much, but I recently had a 2,200 ton DD just disappear while charging a German super-BB.

Admittedly, the rest of the squadron and the CLs following it fed that BB about 40 torpedoes and it fell over, but it was still shocking to just lose a DD.

Just the other night I had a Wtf? when the first shot of the battle, from a 1909 vintage AH dreadnought landed slap bang on the bow of my 1920 DD, at 18000+ yards.

Obviously upgraded, but still worthy of the RNG gods.

[mlangsdorf]

Originally posted by chiyen:

It can happen, originally the critical rules are:

1) Never sail in straight line when within range.
2) Do not have 2 or more of your ships on the same line or fire vs any one of enemy ship.
3) Do not slowdown too much after releasing torpedo and make turns.
Nevertheless, after V 1.5.0.3, TB / DD are more easily get shot,

...

So it's now unlikely to be able to do head-on torpedo raid with early day short range torpedoes

It was a 2,240 ton destroyer against a German Super-BB in 1933. This wasn't a head-on torpedo raid with short range torpedoes, but a side chase as I set-up for a hammer-and-anvil attack. My ships were in a line abreast, maneuvering as they approached, but the Germans still got a lucky hit in with a 15.3" cannon and vaporized the ship.

My point was that while super destroyers are amazing and can have an amazing kill per mass ratio (I'd killed a similar super BB with 6 DDs in an ambush), they are still fragile and the rare, lucky hit will still devastate them.

[Nitemares]

Originally posted by mlangsdorf:

Originally posted by chiyen:

It can happen, originally the critical rules are:

1) Never sail in straight line when within range.
2) Do not have 2 or more of your ships on the same line or fire vs any one of enemy ship.
3) Do not slowdown too much after releasing torpedo and make turns.
Nevertheless, after V 1.5.0.3, TB / DD are more easily get shot,

...

So it's now unlikely to be able to do head-on torpedo raid with early day short range torpedoes

It was a 2,240 ton destroyer against a German Super-BB in 1933. This wasn't a head-on torpedo raid with short range torpedoes, but a side chase as I set-up for a hammer-and-anvil attack. My ships were in a line abreast, maneuvering as they approached, but the Germans still got a lucky hit in with a 15.3" cannon and vaporized the ship.

My point was that while super destroyers are amazing and can have an amazing kill per mass ratio (I'd killed a similar super BB with 6 DDs in an ambush), they are still fragile and the rare, lucky hit will still devastate them.

Yea.....

A destroyer of almost any age is not going to stand up for long against a battleship gun :D (Have had a few "leader" destroyers with triple hulls and max bulkheads survive a couple 14" shells.. if only to limp to a port for 8 months of repairs... VS 10 months for a new ship!)


To the OP:

You found a winning ship class and design for this stage of your game! Congrats! Use them to your advantage while you can, because the enemy nations will eventually "catch up" to you in terms of design, and if you are not ready for it, things will go sideways fast.


The big item to keep watch for is RADAR!!! Once the enemy nations start equipping their ships with radar 2+. things get bad for destroyers FAST!

Playing as Spain right now and I have Advanced Radar 5 tech (meaning I have radar 3, and 2 radar improvement repeatable techs as well) on all my ships. Which means I see enemy battleships at 40 km out, and see Destroyers at 28 km out on average... which happens to be well within gun range of anything bigger than 6" with the proper barrel extensions..... And yes, my ships start raining shells on enemy destroyers at 28 km with frightening accuracy!

The Germans (who I am at war with) Just introduced a new lines of ships with Radar 2... and have slaughtered my DD forces! I can't get a 3000 t low profile torpedo destroyer within 25 km of a German ship without shells incoming... and they are WAAAY to accurate for survival! Which has forced me to adapt my navy in response.

[mlangsdorf]

Yeah, after the introduction of radar all my DDs shift from hammer-and-anvil close in attacks with fast torpedoes to massed fire with long range oxygen torpedoes. It's sometimes viable to close to within 20 km and launch, but any closer is bad for destroyers.

[chiyen]

After BC3, it's much effort saving just to use BC3.

DD can hardly catch that. For torpedo, if fired, has a hard time trying to catch a BC in its tail too.

[NoG]

Lol I been noticing more large caliber guns getting shots off my DDs, thought it was a skill issue. I think by now I should just accept at least one loss when pursuing a BB/ BC with DDs and CLs. Gotta kinda corral the BB and BC into a turn so sail toward my bigger slower ships or sail toward other torp bearing ships. Its like getting a chicken into a farm pen lmao.

[Hidden Gunman]

Originally posted by NoG:

Lol I been noticing more large caliber guns getting shots off my DDs, thought it was a skill issue. I think by now I should just accept at least one loss when pursuing a BB/ BC with DDs and CLs. Gotta kinda corral the BB and BC into a turn so sail toward my bigger slower ships or sail toward other torp bearing ships. Its like getting a chicken into a farm pen lmao.

I've always been one to build fast large ships when I can, and match them with a couple of cl and dd. fudge around with accurate guns at long and medium range, split them up amd cripple a few, unload all the torpedoes, then retreat the little guys and play cat and mouse with the dreadnoughts, bb or bc's. Its like rounding up sheep, eventually they'll get confused and cluster duck.

[NoG]

Originally posted by Hidden Gunman:

Originally posted by NoG:

Lol I been noticing more large caliber guns getting shots off my DDs, thought it was a skill issue. I think by now I should just accept at least one loss when pursuing a BB/ BC with DDs and CLs. Gotta kinda corral the BB and BC into a turn so sail toward my bigger slower ships or sail toward other torp bearing ships. Its like getting a chicken into a farm pen lmao.

I've always been one to build fast large ships when I can, and match them with a couple of cl and dd. fudge around with accurate guns at long and medium range, split them up amd cripple a few, unload all the torpedoes, then retreat the little guys and play cat and mouse with the dreadnoughts, bb or bc's. Its like rounding up sheep, eventually they'll get confused and cluster duck.

The ai can be stupid but that kinda stuff makes me laugh, big intimidating warships operating like bugs and animals