German Heavy Cruisers are underwhelming and broken

[Kilrathii]

You start off in 1890 with a moving fridge and once new hulls appear the front and back towers cause problems when fitting 10.9 and 11in guns. I will not build anymore CA in this campaign since its pointless. Ive played France and Japan before and they have a good progression for all ships.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3149701408

[Nitemares]

Let me see if I understand your argument....

"Because I can't put BATTLE SHIP caliber guns to my HEAVY cruiser, at the tech level I currently am, everything is broken!!!"


Heavy cruiser caliber guns range from 7 inch to 10 inch for Germans....

Battle ship caliber was generally in the 10 to 15 inch range....

Every nation is different, with different advantages and disadvantages, and those extend beyond their GDP and geographical locations.

Strategies that worked with one nation may not work for another. Time to adapt and overcome.

[vanDyck]

German has two types of CA hulls in late game. The modern heavy cruisers, representing the hipper/prinz eugen classes with their 4x2 8" setup, with hull stats more for speed, and the advanced armored cruisers, based on the deutschland and p-classes of pocket BBs, armed originally with 11" tripples and with better resistance stats.

Lets see (1940, shared designs, guns MK V), just looking at mountable max. gun size:
-mod. CA I: limit of aft tower barbette is x3 234.1mm, of the front tower barbette x3 281.5mm
-mod. CA II can mount 4x3 301.9mm guns, or 2x4 and 2x3 301.9mm guns (superfirirng turrets on the towers barbettes)
-mod. CA III max. turret size of the front tower barbette is x3 289.2mm

-ad. armored Cruiser I can mount 4x4 301.9mm guns (with added barbetts)
-ad. armored cruiser II max turret that fits on the aft tower barbette is x4 296.8mm, added front barbette

All numbers may differ a bit with barrel lenght, gun MK and i didnt check for any mm...

I dont see any problems here with the modern german CA hulls.... ca. 230-240mm guns should be good anti cruisers guns, the rest can fit standart 11"+ guns tripples or even quads.

[Kilrathii]

Originally posted by Nitemares:

Let me see if I understand your argument....

"Because I can't put BATTLE SHIP caliber guns to my HEAVY cruiser, at the tech level I currently am, everything is broken!!!"


Heavy cruiser caliber guns range from 7 inch to 10 inch for Germans....

Battle ship caliber was generally in the 10 to 15 inch range....

Every nation is different, with different advantages and disadvantages, and those extend beyond their GDP and geographical locations.

Strategies that worked with one nation may not work for another. Time to adapt and overcome.

Im phasing out the CAs and going to use BCs and CLs to augment TFs i have. Campaign is in 1935 and i have 14mil tons in build. I actually think Germany has awesome ships except the CA line. I still have BB and DD models from like 1905.

Heres the BC ill be using to replace the cruisers. Its 4kn faster and not too expensive.

https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198028006776/screenshot/2277200314605211717/

[Kilrathii]

Originally posted by vanDyck:

German has two types of CA hulls in late game. The modern heavy cruisers, representing the hipper/prinz eugen classes with their 4x2 8" setup, with hull stats more for speed, and the advanced armored cruisers, based on the deutschland and p-classes of pocket BBs, armed originally with 11" tripples and with better resistance stats.

Lets see (1940, shared designs, guns MK V), just looking at mountable max. gun size:
-mod. CA I: limit of aft tower barbette is x3 234.1mm, of the front tower barbette x3 281.5mm
-mod. CA II can mount 4x3 301.9mm guns, or 2x4 and 2x3 301.9mm guns (superfirirng turrets on the towers barbettes)
-mod. CA III max. turret size of the front tower barbette is x3 289.2mm

-ad. armored Cruiser I can mount 4x4 301.9mm guns (with added barbetts)
-ad. armored cruiser II max turret that fits on the aft tower barbette is x4 296.8mm, added front barbette

All numbers may differ a bit with barrel lenght, gun MK and i didnt check for any mm...

I dont see any problems here with the modern german CA hulls.... ca. 230-240mm guns should be good anti cruisers guns, the rest can fit standart 11"+ guns tripples or even quads.

Good point. Im assuming you mean using a PBB like this instead of the Modern CA hulls.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3149770043

[vanDyck]

Depends, if you want something fast, use the modern cruiser hulls, if you want something with more firepower and resistance, use the advance armored cruiser hulls.

I use CAs in three roles:

1. 2nd. class BBs - advanced armored cruiser hull
2. early BCs - replaced by BCs
3. trade protection or raiding - modern heavy cruiser hull

[Kilrathii]

I used these pre modern hulls with no problems and i squeezed 4x3 10.9in turrets at very low tonnage. The hull in 2nd pic was the best of entire line.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3149770009
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3149770122

[gigamelon1981]

Originally posted by Kilrathii:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3149770122

Not with that amount of Pitch and Roll. That hull also have difficulty to mount thick armor, hence explains why you cannot balance it easy.
I see no problem if you're stick with the old hulls trough refit or switching to small BC tho. If you prefer it that way.
CA is CA, the gun diameter is the limit, so?
Honestly even smaller caliber gun is okay as long you can pick appropriate warhead and ammo type. I mostly working with 8 inchers for CA. I think the best caliber for secondaries also.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3150144494
10.9 Incher, 36Kn, 14.5 Pitch, 15K ton, Max Armor, 345 turning rate 1196 ASW.
And still have an extra 4K ton for further improvements. I think it is a pretty solid design.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3150161217

[ChrisK(Germany)]

You are using BCs instead of CAs? Sure, they can have better firepower and a decend bit more armour but their cost, in my games lategame a single BC costs as much as a few Cas together in Upkeep.

[Kilrathii]

Originally posted by ChrisK(Germany):

You are using BCs instead of CAs? Sure, they can have better firepower and a decend bit more armour but their cost, in my games lategame a single BC costs as much as a few Cas together in Upkeep.

Yes in the end i went with BCs CLs and DDs as escorts for taskforces.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3151316536

[Rxproject]

Yes they're broken.
Brokenly powerful.

[Bane]

Broken as in OP.

[thundercactus]

Historically, the protected and armoured cruisers of the Imperial Germany Navy had 6-9.5" guns.
Since the hulls are based on historical vessels and not fictional vessels.... well you get what they got.
The fact some ships CAN'T sport the largest possible calibres is likely why they added the capability of overwhelming a ship with fire using HE.
Anyway, just adjust your tactics; use CA's to attack anything CL or smaller, use BC's or BB's to sink CA's.
Wouldn't be a very interesting game if every faction was exactly the same.

[Tericc]

i use CA To provide fire support in fleets. While their guns aren't good enough to hurt a (Well built) BB. They can do incredible damage if you use their guns right.

Depending on tech i use 10" guns. Maybe 11" if they are Decent tech. And use heavy ammo.
Set The CA to Fire at the longest possible range and just let them rain hail on the decks with heavy He Rounds burning BB's and obliterating smaller ships.
I dont use CA German ships as cheap tanks at all. Surprisingly DD fill this role well enough.

[ChrisK(Germany)]

Ah yes cheap tanks, i remember the time when torpedo boats had a 25 inch belt...

[gigamelon1981]

Anything can deal with bigger ships if they have enough gun, or fire power.