Submarines out of control...

[Wyrm]

In a single turn I lost 3 CA and 2 BC as well as a few destroyers in 5 separate engagements against small groups of submarines (2-3)
I didn't sink a single sub.
Each of my fleet has at least twice the number of destroyers as I have capital ships. My destroyers are all fit with the best tech available for ASW. They might as well have just stayed home...

Can we please either tweak them so they are less deadly against surface ships or make them optional to have in the game? I never use them since they are so boring having no tactical element. They are just pure RNG/luck-based and there seems to be no reliable way to really counter them.

[chutche]

I have never lost a surface ship to submarines in my current game which is up to 1929, started in 1900. Every capital ship has CLs or DDs with it with sonar and depth charges, and the BBs and BCs have hydrophones.

[gigamelon1981]

They're not pure RNG luck. The game hates submarines IMHO.
Now you said you've equipped your DDs with the best ASW.
Did you equip the best sonar, and depth charge?
Sonar increases a lot of your ASW rating, but DC has the damage multiplier to subs.
What is their speed?
Speed and recon plus their range is crucial for ASW.
Their onboard weapon is irrelevant.
So you can make a DD with 1 gun 1 tube torpedo, using turbo-electric or diesel engine especially to escort your task force. And make them as cheap as possible.
But do not spread them all over the map as it would generate random battle even if they're in port. If enters a battle, order them to flee once the battle begin.
They should be able to flee, since speed is the theme.
As for ASW rating, i have confidence at 1200. At least 800.

Probably equipping a capital ship with torpedo protection will reduce an instant delete by sub attacks. My Battle Cruisers hit at many occasion, they got medium damage then sent to nearby port. It were attacks by wolfpack of 6 submarines.

[Wyrm]

Originally posted by gigamelon1981:

They're not pure RNG luck. The game hates submarines IMHO.
Now you said you've equipped your DDs with the best ASW.
Did you equip the best sonar, and depth charge?
Sonar increases a lot of your ASW rating, but DC has the damage multiplier to subs.
What is their speed?
Speed and recon plus their range is crucial for ASW.
Their onboard weapon is irrelevant.
So you can make a DD with 1 gun 1 tube torpedo, using turbo-electric or diesel engine especially to escort your task force. And make them as cheap as possible.
But do not spread them all over the map as it would generate random battle even if they're in port. If enters a battle, order them to flee once the battle begin.
They should be able to flee, since speed is the theme.
As for ASW rating, i have confidence at 1200. At least 800.

Probably equipping a capital ship with torpedo protection will reduce an instant delete by sub attacks. My Battle Cruisers hit at many occasion, they got medium damage then sent to nearby port. It were attacks by wolfpack of 6 submarines.

All DD have best sonar and best DC. Also a speed of 38 knots. Some of my older DD may lag a generation behind in tech, but they should still be a significant threat to subs.
I always max torpedo protection on my ships that can fit it.

ASW on my destroyers is between 167 and 233
Recon is between 59-73

And I'm at 1931

[vanDyck]

To bad that top spead adds to ASW, it shouldnt.
Going too fast renders hyrdophones and sonar useless, an you need to long to brake. Also it makes ships to expansive. To hunt down subs going 20-25kts max surfaced and 8 diving you dont need 37kt+. Also (iRL) haveing a "high speed" engine going 5-10kts most of the time (speed of merchant shipping, diving uboats) is not got for such "racing boats". Look at the speed of historic DDEs or other escorts, mostly between 15-30 kts.

[chutche]

What about your CLs and other ships? My CLs all have maxed depth charge and sonar like my DDs, and my CAs BBs and BCs all have hydrophone 2. I usually run 2 BB 2 CA 4 CL 8 DD as a basic fleet, or 2 BC 3 CA 6 CL for a long range high speed fleet. Never have any sub issues.

[Thad]

I got blindsided when fighting britain in my current Germany campaign with my surface fleet getting sunk by British subs. Just stay on top of hydrophones and Depth Charges. Once I got some Destroyers with ASW they were dropping like flies.

[Wyrm]

My CLs are also all equipped for ASW

I just lost my newest battleship against a lone sub... Part of a large fleet, mainly of CL and DD, but being the only BB. Don't my naval forces know how to use picket ships? How to run a proper escort?
They didn't catch the sub either. So, next turn it will sink something more.

In 3 turns I've lost more ships to subs than I have lost to all causes in the entire campaign up until that point.

I'm tossing this campaign because it's no longer fun to play. Just frustrating.
It's like playing a game of chess but an invisible monster randomly eats your best pieces...

[gigamelon1981]

Originally posted by vanDyck:

To bad that top spead adds to ASW, it shouldnt.
Going too fast renders hyrdophones and sonar useless, an you need to long to brake. Also it makes ships to expansive. To hunt down subs going 20-25kts max surfaced and 8 diving you dont need 37kt+. Also (iRL) haveing a "high speed" engine going 5-10kts most of the time (speed of merchant shipping, diving uboats) is not got for such "racing boats". Look at the speed of historic DDEs or other escorts, mostly between 15-30 kts.

I think it is the cruise speed, not the top speed. Just my hypothesis tho since it went much better when i switch to diesel engines.

[vanDyck]

That at least would make more sense.

[Wingnut]

Originally posted by gigamelon1981:

Originally posted by vanDyck:

To bad that top spead adds to ASW, it shouldnt.
Going too fast renders hyrdophones and sonar useless, an you need to long to brake. Also it makes ships to expansive. To hunt down subs going 20-25kts max surfaced and 8 diving you dont need 37kt+. Also (iRL) haveing a "high speed" engine going 5-10kts most of the time (speed of merchant shipping, diving uboats) is not got for such "racing boats". Look at the speed of historic DDEs or other escorts, mostly between 15-30 kts.

I think it is the cruise speed, not the top speed. Just my hypothesis tho since it went much better when i switch to diesel engines.

Its not the top speed or the cruise speed thats important its the acceleration, diesels spool up quicker than any steam engine.
Google 'sprint drift' as ASW technique.

[joshdino]

I'm having the same issue. All of my fleet screening elements are heavily equipped with ASW; Sonar III and the latest depth charges. Even my capital ships have at least Hydro, but despite rolling in with task forces with 6+ DDs with full ASW suites, my ships keep getting damaged and dropping like flies despite having a massive tech lead over my opponent.

[gigamelon1981]

Originally posted by Wingnut:

Originally posted by gigamelon1981:

I think it is the cruise speed, not the top speed. Just my hypothesis tho since it went much better when i switch to diesel engines.

Its not the top speed or the cruise speed thats important its the acceleration, diesels spool up quicker than any steam engine.
Google 'sprint drift' as ASW technique.

If it is acceleration, it think Turbo electric or Gas turbine are much better at that.

[Wyrm]

Originally posted by Oggmeista:

So what were the adversarial tech levels? because if you had terrible ASW and they has high quality subs, then that's what i would expect to happen, as well of course, you just might of been unlucky, it happens

Not sure, but I was mauling ther surface fleet with little effort and the designs of their ships seemed to indicate them being older than mine. I was "Advanced" according to the game, so I doubt they had overly superior subs

[joshdino]

Originally posted by Oggmeista:

So what were the adversarial tech levels? because if you had terrible ASW and they has high quality subs, then that's what i would expect to happen, as well of course, you just might of been unlucky, it happens

Well, I'm very advanced and they're very behind in 1932. I think they're using early coastal subs.

[jorixxupalorn]

I've had the same problem. Got way better tech than everyone else, really high ASW scores, on fairly fast, well made escorts.. they have yet to take out a single sub while I've lost at least half dozen ships or more to them. Something is obviously wrong with the lastest patches.