What kind of BB should I made?

[GrimReaperHUN]

So, I maxed out the US tech-tree, it's 1946, fought a fierce war against the British Empire for 4-5 year, I managed to win with some horrible experience...

First of all, my BBs are waaay to slow. British battleships are over 30+ kn, with better accuracy. What I testing now, is the fast battleships, what US Navy rly had back then (such as, the Iowa-class). Yeah, max tonnage lower, but I want to concentrate more on mobility... but not rly want to sacrifice armor and damage... what should I do?

[[TWC] Empirion0]

Originally posted by GrimReaperHUN:

... what should I do?

More insight on your current tech level will be good. This sounds like a classic case of: You got out-teched, bro!

Here is what you must have in mind when building BB. They are your "Tanks" of the sea. They are large, imposing and can do the damage, but they can't do it alone. Their job is survive long enough so your other teammates like DD and Cruisers can close in. Anyway, here are some field you need to look at.

1. Armor quality: Sometimes, less is indeed "more". Your British 15 inch armor at 100% quality is equal to my 10 inch armor at 150% quality (don't quote me on the math, but you get what I mean).

2. Guns: Same as above. Mark 4 11 inches have the same range as Mark 1 14 inches. They are also reload faster, and more accurate. Check the accuracy of your barrels too. If your double barrels are more developed then your triple barrels, then use double barrels for now.

3. Speed: I personally don't find speed that useful for BB. Speed is used for catching up to your escorts or trying to stay at range from enemy ships. In your case, do you want to close in faster on British ships for more accurate shots and penetration? Those are not for your BB's role to fill. Leave that to Cruisers. After all, they aren't called "infantry of the sea" for nothing.

Okay, you have a BB that looks weaker on paper, now what? Play your advantage, of course. Equip your BB with the best radar, Steor-whateverfukit- Rangefinder, RDF, and Auto reload with the weight you have saved. Maybe Super-heavy shells if you lack confidence.

Then proceed to laugh hard as you shove your hard and heavy 12 inches up his...errr... stern, while he fumbles and struggles to reload his mark 1 17 inch. That is if he still can while he ship is on fire, flooding and missing 1 engine.

[GrimReaperHUN]

Originally posted by TWC Empirion0:

Originally posted by GrimReaperHUN:

... what should I do?

More insight on your current tech level will be good. This sounds like a classic case of: You got out-teched, bro!

Here is what you must have in mind when building BB. They are your "Tanks" of the sea. They are large, imposing and can do the damage, but they can't do it alone. Their job is survive long enough so your other teammates like DD and Cruisers can close in. Anyway, here are some field you need to look at.

1. Armor quality: Sometimes, less is indeed "more". Your British 15 inch armor at 100% quality is equal to my 10 inch armor at 150% quality (don't quote me on the math, but you get what I mean).

2. Guns: Same as above. Mark 4 11 inches have the same range as Mark 1 14 inches. They are also reload faster, and more accurate. Check the accuracy of your barrels too. If your double barrels are more developed then your triple barrels, then use double barrels for now.

3. Speed: I personally don't find speed that useful for BB. Speed is used for catching up to your escorts or trying to stay at range from enemy ships. In your case, do you want to close in faster on British ships for more accurate shots and penetration? Those are not for your BB's role to fill. Leave that to Cruisers. After all, they aren't called "infantry of the sea" for nothing.

Okay, you have a BB that looks weaker on paper, now what? Play your advantage, of course. Equip your BB with the best radar, Steor-whateverfukit- Rangefinder, RDF, and Auto reload with the weight you have saved. Maybe Super-heavy shells if you lack confidence.

Then proceed to laugh hard as you shove your hard and heavy 12 inches up his...errr... stern, while he fumbles and struggles to reload his mark 1 17 inch. That is if he still can while he ship is on fire, flooding and missing 1 engine.

Thanks! I will try with these settings:) For some reason I liked the Fast Battleship idea, made the Iowa-class with 33 kn speed, 16-inch guns. At the moment, I don't know, which hull should I start with. At the moment, for "sea tankies", I have one BB-class, but the british have better accuracy to counter it. The other one is an Alaska-class like ship, very mobile, 12-inch guns, and I find out that these ships are very much devastatiung against BBs.

[[TWC] Empirion0]

Here are some images on my take on how you can handle the British. I am currently at war with them too, so I know my ship works!

Here are some images on my take on how you can handle the British. I am currently at war with them too, so I know my ship works!

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2984481217

This is "Bretagne" my current pride of the French Navy. Unlike her historical counterpart, which died miserably at the hands of the British, my Bretagne has already sunk HMS Dreadnought and HMS Goliath. Both were 32kn, 45k tonne armed with x4 16.1 inch "Valiant-class"

You can check out the sacrifices I have to make in order to fit her machinery, guns and armor.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2984481270

This is her loadout. Important to note is the main gun's base performance, in addition to the bonuses from tech. That is your optimal engagement range. The Speed of your ship is there to help achieve and maintain that range.
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Here is my take on your American "Alaska-class".

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2984481369

That is the hull I would pick. Although it is marked as "Large Cruiser" the classification will be BC (which I believe what Alaska was meant to be originally). Everything left of this hull will be BB and BC, while to the right of this hull will be CA and below.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2984481422

My take on how it should look like. Of course, you are free to adjust it to fit your taste. Again, note the sacrifices I made.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2984481471

Now, the juicy part! Check out her load out and main armament. This what I mean by "less is more". It actually out-ranges my 16 inches. More accurate at mid-ranges and LITERALLY only 1/3 of the reload time! The only drawbacks are the Mark 4 and later Mark 5 guns are large and heavy, so you might find it hard to fit a lot of them on a ship.

[[TWC] Empirion0]

Originally posted by glythe:

Originally posted by TWC Empirion0:

3. Speed: I personally don't find speed that useful for BB. Speed is used for catching up to your escorts or trying to stay at range from enemy ships. In your case, do you want to close in faster on British ships for more accurate shots and penetration? Those are not for your BB's role to fill.

-snip for space-

Now then... if you have to choose that you can't be better than the enemy at everything speed is fine to be low for a BB.

This is where you can have LC and DD harass a target to slow it down or cripple it so the BB can eventually catch up and obliterate it.

I thought this was clearly stated in the OP's post. He specifically said the British were faster and more accurate than he is. From that statement, I inferred that he was either trying to gain accuracy by closing into CQC (Close-Quarter Combat) or trying to trade fires with superior opponent. Both of which were yielding unfavorable results.

Right from the get-go, I know "out-teching" is not possible, so the OP needs to win through composition and tactics. Which is why, I said the part about speed. It's basically, "don't force the issue" you don't need BB to fight BB. Thus, I also showed my builds to counter the British in my current game time.

[GrimReaperHUN]

Originally posted by TWC Empirion0:

Originally posted by glythe:

I thought this was clearly stated in the OP's post. He specifically said the British were faster and more accurate than he is. From that statement, I inferred that he was either trying to gain accuracy by closing into CQC (Close-Quarter Combat) or trying to trade fires with superior opponent. Both of which were yielding unfavorable results.

Right from the get-go, I know "out-teching" is not possible, so the OP needs to win through composition and tactics. Which is why, I said the part about speed. It's basically, "don't force the issue" you don't need BB to fight BB. Thus, I also showed my builds to counter the British in my current game time.

Well, I'm experimenting with different builds. Now I have a Fast Battleship with 34.6 kn, 18-inch guns, with rapid-firing, all the stuff you said, and I destroyed 2x Super BB, 9x CL, 13x DD from japan with only two Fast Battleship. So, mixing your advice with my twisted mind turned out OK. Now, I'm working on a Cruiser-Killer BB, with 10-inch guns, mobility, armor mixed.

[[TWC] Empirion0]

Originally posted by GrimReaperHUN:

Well, I'm experimenting with different builds. Now I have a Fast Battleship with 34.6 kn, 18-inch guns, with rapid-firing, all the stuff you said, and I destroyed 2x Super BB, 9x CL, 13x DD from japan with only two Fast Battleship. So, mixing your advice with my twisted mind turned out OK. Now, I'm working on a Cruiser-Killer BB, with 10-inch guns, mobility, armor mixed.

[
Oh, so you do have the tech required to keep up. Then the whole starting situation now sounds more and more like your own negligence. Don't worry, this games goes out of its way to hide a lot of information from you. Either that, or it is just abysmal design. I will leave you to formulate your own opinion.

Back to BB building: Battleships around 35kn are becoming the standard around 1940 due to the discovery of oil engines. Speed in this period of time is used for operation range, maneuverability and adapting to modern naval doctrines. So no, your 34.5 kn BB isn't your twisted mind, you just simply unknowingly "re-invented the wheel"

Your next design concept should be: Okay, I can shoot him, and he can shoot back. Now what? Oh, I know! I should get bigger guns and shoot from where I can see him, but he can't see me! (advancement of Radar).

Oh, darn it! He has radar too! Fine, I will just move even further back, so it takes time for my radar signature to reach back to him. In the meantime, I am going to math out his movement and shoot the spot where he will be! (Ships shooting at each other way beyond the curvature of the horizon; classic tabletop Battleship that became so popular)
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The idea and arms-race of "further back and more guesswork" leads to what we have today. Cruise missiles, extinction of battleships, satellite, missile defense systems, aircraft carriers etc. Hell, that is how aircraft carriers were invented in the first place. To counter the ever growing of gun sizes.

[GrimReaperHUN]

Originally posted by TWC Empirion0:

Originally posted by GrimReaperHUN:

Well, I'm experimenting with different builds. Now I have a Fast Battleship with 34.6 kn, 18-inch guns, with rapid-firing, all the stuff you said, and I destroyed 2x Super BB, 9x CL, 13x DD from japan with only two Fast Battleship. So, mixing your advice with my twisted mind turned out OK. Now, I'm working on a Cruiser-Killer BB, with 10-inch guns, mobility, armor mixed.

[
Oh, so you do have the tech required to keep up. Then the whole starting situation now sounds more and more like your own negligence. Don't worry, this games goes out of its way to hide a lot of information from you. Either that, or it is just abysmal design. I will leave you to formulate your own opinion.

Thank you again! Yes, I was probably put less information into the topic, but yeah, I'm reached diesel and gas-turbine engines, modern armor technology, radar gen 1 and 2, etc...
Currently, I dropped my usual battleship-hulls into the bin, and more focused on the 55-68,000ton fast battleship with 33-35 kn speed, 15 to 18-inch guns and upscaled main belt and main deck armor, auto I or II rld system and electric I rotating system.
I wasn't even talked about other stuff, such as powder tubes, shell types, etc....

[solops1]

1946 , eh? Well, the game stops in 1950, so any BB you build might not even get completed. Probably get it done with 6 to 9 months left...maybe?

[vanDyck]

1946... in the 1920s there were already plans to build ships of 50.000ts and more (N3/G3, 8/8 programm, L20alpha), with 18" guns and bigger. They were stopped by the bad finacial situation after WWI and the treaties.
In this game, we have none of this. Ships will get bigger and bigger, and without CVs the BB stays the core of the fleet. So anything with less than 60.000-70.000ts and 16" guns wouldnt make any sence for me in 1946, probarbly going into 90k+ts and 20" guns in 2x4 or 3x3 setup maybe...

Normally i look for the optimal hull speed to start, increasing it more if i have tonnage left after i put everything in i want.
Main belt and main guns side armor = main guns caliber if possible, good deck protection, rest rather thin (enough to stop normal HEs, real all or nothing style), 6"-8" secondaries, maybe additonal 2"-3" if you want.
And of course if you are building the core and pride of the fleet (as US, the strongest economy in game mostly) you should not go small or cheap. Get the best possible.

But if you start building a BB in 1946 it wont see much action, if ever.