Heavy Guns Are Atrocious Now

[Renown]

This game just seems to become more insufferable with each update. 1.2.0 was an improvement, but 1.2.2R seems to have undone those changes. Heavy guns are, and have for a while been a sticking point. They fire too slowly, have horrible dispersion and long range accuracy, and still display the uneven salvo bug. I can't tell you how many times I've seen my capital ships fire intermittently with their total output reduced to half or blast away at targets well within the range of their guns and not score a single hit for the entire duration of the battle. It's like playing XCOM where even if you have a 99% chance to hit you'll still miss half the time. The numbers basically mean nothing. What's worse is that it seems that the enemy AI has a magical accuracy boost applied to its heavy guns so while they can maul you, you just have to wait to close to point blank to have a hope of replying, if you even survive that long. Case in point, my favorite design, basically HMS Vanguard in 1930 with heavier armor and 16/45 rather than 15/42 guns, used to be able to comfortably engage enemies at or beyond 20,000 meters. Now the thing won't hit a massive 100,000 ton battleship at 15,000 despite having top tier rangefinders, radar, favorable roll and pitch characteristics, and a veteran crew. Not to mention those guns fire at a whopping 1.12 rounds per minute with tier 1 auto loaders and, again, a veteran crew. Compare this to the similar guns and mountings on the Colorado class which had a a maximum fire rate of 1.5 despite being a nearly decade older. WTF man?

[nzgunner]

I find that by the late 1910s my new BBs have accurate long range fire doing decent damage and with good reload speed. That's because I won't build anything without a mk3 main gun, even if there are several heavier calibres available.

To make effective use of these guns, I also pay careful attention to smoke interference and engine efficiency - and go full out on range finding and accuracy modules.

It can also help to have lighter ships scouting ahead so you identify and prioritise enemy ships at the range where your guns are more effective - and you don't have to worry about torpedoes, meaning you can sacrifice some (or all) of that protection type.

Another thing i do is give each capital ship a different target (and often for their secondaries as well) when there are multiple threats as shell splashes reduce accuracy.

I mostly get frustrated by heavy calibre shells bouncing off ageing CAs, so I switch to HE to cause fires.

For me at least, the game provides a good (not perfect) feel for naval combat and rewards thought out tactics and design.

[Renown]

Originally posted by nzgunner:

I find that by the late 1910s my new BBs have accurate long range fire doing decent damage and with good reload speed. That's because I won't build anything without a mk3 main gun, even if there are several heavier calibres available.

To make effective use of these guns, I also pay careful attention to smoke interference and engine efficiency - and go full out on range finding and accuracy modules.

It can also help to have lighter ships scouting ahead so you identify and prioritise enemy ships at the range where your guns are more effective - and you don't have to worry about torpedoes, meaning you can sacrifice some (or all) of that protection type.

Another thing i do is give each capital ship a different target (and often for their secondaries as well) when there are multiple threats as shell splashes reduce accuracy.

I mostly get frustrated by heavy calibre shells bouncing off ageing CAs, so I switch to HE to cause fires.

For me at least, the game provides a good (not perfect) feel for naval combat and rewards thought out tactics and design.

I'm doing the exact same. Good pitch/roll, low to no smoke, dividing fire respectively in a battle line, scouting when possible, unified main battery, top of the line rangefinders and fire direction, etc. Yet I still am seeing shell dispersion that would make the Littorio class blush. Like how were Warspite and Scharnhorst able to hit out at 23,000 yards if this game is to be taken seriously? And don't even get me started on hitting a cruiser with a 14-16 inch AP shell and seeing blocked or partial.

Worth adding that capital ship engagements simply happen at ranges that are unrealistically close, at least from 1915 onward. This is largely thanks to the AI tendency to dive headlong at you to about 5000 meters.

[godspeedthunder]

Originally posted by Renown:

Originally posted by nzgunner:

I find that by the late 1910s my new BBs have accurate long range fire doing decent damage and with good reload speed. That's because I won't build anything without a mk3 main gun, even if there are several heavier calibres available.

To make effective use of these guns, I also pay careful attention to smoke interference and engine efficiency - and go full out on range finding and accuracy modules.

It can also help to have lighter ships scouting ahead so you identify and prioritise enemy ships at the range where your guns are more effective - and you don't have to worry about torpedoes, meaning you can sacrifice some (or all) of that protection type.

Another thing i do is give each capital ship a different target (and often for their secondaries as well) when there are multiple threats as shell splashes reduce accuracy.

I mostly get frustrated by heavy calibre shells bouncing off ageing CAs, so I switch to HE to cause fires.

For me at least, the game provides a good (not perfect) feel for naval combat and rewards thought out tactics and design.

I'm doing the exact same. Good pitch/roll, low to no smoke, dividing fire respectively in a battle line, scouting when possible, unified main battery, top of the line rangefinders and fire direction, etc. Yet I still am seeing shell dispersion that would make the Littorio class blush. Like how were Warspite and Scharnhorst able to hit out at 23,000 yards if this game is to be taken seriously? And don't even get me started on hitting a cruiser with a 14-16 inch AP shell and seeing blocked or partial.

Worth adding that capital ship engagements simply happen at ranges that are unrealistically close, at least from 1915 onward. This is largely thanks to the AI tendency to dive headlong at you to about 5000 meters.

I believe you are suffering from 1 bug and also victim to another problem which isn't technically a bug but its not obvious.

Try using large calibre guns in pairs of turrets and no more. So if you want 4 turrets, take 2x 2 different calibres.

You will get a small accuracy penalty but it will help you to avoid the turret firing bug and it will also protect you from an insane recoil penalty which renders a lot of your shots useless.

[Renown]

Originally posted by godspeedthunder:

Originally posted by Renown:

I'm doing the exact same. Good pitch/roll, low to no smoke, dividing fire respectively in a battle line, scouting when possible, unified main battery, top of the line rangefinders and fire direction, etc. Yet I still am seeing shell dispersion that would make the Littorio class blush. Like how were Warspite and Scharnhorst able to hit out at 23,000 yards if this game is to be taken seriously? And don't even get me started on hitting a cruiser with a 14-16 inch AP shell and seeing blocked or partial.

Worth adding that capital ship engagements simply happen at ranges that are unrealistically close, at least from 1915 onward. This is largely thanks to the AI tendency to dive headlong at you to about 5000 meters.

I believe you are suffering from 1 bug and also victim to another problem which isn't technically a bug but its not obvious.

Try using large calibre guns in pairs of turrets and no more. So if you want 4 turrets, take 2x 2 different calibres.

You will get a small accuracy penalty but it will help you to avoid the turret firing bug and it will also protect you from an insane recoil penalty which renders a lot of your shots useless.

Interesting but that's totally unrealistic and a problem that should've been fixed long ago before the supposed "release" of this game. I am currently experimenting and will try, thanks.

[godspeedthunder]

I agree and have been trying to help the devs to fix these problems for quite a while now.

[Charlton Heston's Heroic Stance]

I was personally happy to see the end of the 2400% range found bonuses that this recent update seems to have removed, they were just way too much.

However to compensate for the loss, I think the base accuracy values of guns and aiming technology should have been boosted to provide a more frequent opportunity to get the now reduced range found bonuses.

I know they're never going to be able to please everyone on this issue, but maybe a long term solution to this is for the game to have a slider in the options menu, so that the player can choose their own global accuracy setting Low/Med/High etc.

[Renown]

Originally posted by Charlton Heston's Heroic Stance:

I was personally happy to see the end of the 2400% range found bonuses that this recent update seems to have removed, they were just way too much.

However to compensate for the loss, I think the base accuracy values of guns and aiming technology should have been boosted to provide a more frequent opportunity to get the now reduced range found bonuses.

I know they're never going to be able to please everyone on this issue, but maybe a long term solution to this is for the game to have a slider in the options menu, so that the player can choose their own global accuracy setting Low/Med/High etc.

All I'm asking is that guns in this game at least somewhat match their real life counterparts in performance. I mean this is a simulator after all.

[godspeedthunder]

https://youtu.be/lz93E4VdR24

This is on the previous patch but I assume the recoil system hasn't changed.

If you look, the first 2 turrets fire at the same time so it's impossible to tell what the 2nd turrets accuracy was, but the 3rd and 4th turret both had 0% accuracy because of the recoil penalty from the first 2 firing.

This essentially means it is pointless having more than 2 of the same calibre gun turret because the 3rd and 4th have such poor accuracy.

If you have 2 different calibres then the recoil penalty is only applied from 1 of the calibres, so immediately you only recieve half the penalty. Furthermore if they don't shoot in tandem then the other pair of turrets might not suffer any penalty at all.

I've said it multiple times before and provided a variety of vids for evidence, the recoil system is a total mess.

[godspeedthunder]

Here is a vid on the latest patch with all 3 bugs in-
https://youtu.be/ikwfT9chnAg

[godspeedthunder]

1. Time compression not changing recoil reduction.

2. Recoil not applying when recoil is currently above 0% penalty.

3. Turrets not firing every second salvo because they hadn't reloaded in time.

If they fix no.2 on the list then they will need to drastically reduce the amount of gun recoil applied so its not permanently at ridiculously high amounts.

If they fix no.2 and not no.1 then the only viable option would be to play the game on 1x speed at all times.

[the Baron]

Horrible gun accuracy at long ranges, you said?
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2934957433
With a few salvos, I am already getting 27%. This with 50% crew quality and standard barrel length. This is more than enough in this situation for this time period. (1940)

If you talk about the reloads, I will agree with you that massive guns, 17 inches and higher, have terrible reload times in comparison to real life examples. But the accuracy now feels much better and natural. In the previous version, the accuracy values were complete fantasy BS that was ruining the game.

[Renown]

Originally posted by the Baron:

Horrible gun accuracy at long ranges, you said?
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2934957433
With a few salvos, I am already getting 27%. This with 50% crew quality and standard barrel length. This is more than enough in this situation for this time period. (1940)

If you talk about the reloads, I will agree with you that massive guns, 17 inches and higher, have terrible reload times in comparison to real life examples. But the accuracy now feels much better and natural. In the previous version, the accuracy values were complete fantasy BS that was ruining the game.

It's more about shell dispersion, which still sucks. You can have a fantastically accurate ship that just patterns shells all around the target without ever hitting. That said, I simply don't trust the numbers the game displays. Like what does 27% accuracy mean? Chance to bracket, chance to hit, is that per gun or cumulative. It's not very transparent.

[apdsmith]

The accuracy is very poor while it's doing the "ladder aiming" stage - it's basically taking ranging potshots - but one *that* bit gets to 100% I've found it reasonably accurate...

[Renown]

Originally posted by apdsmith:

The accuracy is very poor while it's doing the "ladder aiming" stage - it's basically taking ranging potshots - but one *that* bit gets to 100% I've found it reasonably accurate...

That was present in previous versions, but I don't even see ships firing ranging shots anymore.

[godspeedthunder]

well the game feels great atm, a marked improvement over recent patches. if they can just fix the gun recoil mechanics then it will be close to fantastic.

in terms of gunnery anyway. still a lot of work required for fleet control but this patch is definitely a step in the right direction in terms of the tactical battles.