If USS Maine had survived

[toruk_makto1]

I have tried a multitude of versions of a rebuilt Maine and no matter the method and no matter the make, If I take just ONE HIT at the water line, my vessels run that water along the entire keel until she sinks. Usually due to a secondary gun lucky hit that tends to peel off about 9000 casemate.

Recommendations

[mat552|]

Sacrifice everything to get to 23kts, then start rolling the dice. If the AI generates CLs that are faster than you, restart. Then it's just a waiting game. You can't win unless you're lucky and get a magazine explosion, torpedo detonation, or a couple of really good waterline hits with a perfect 9" or 10" main battery hit.

This really feels like a challenge that was created early in the game's life and never updated for radical changes in mechanics.

[the Baron]

Ok, first, ignore the previous comment. With all due respect, but if he is suggesting to get 23 knots from a 17 knots hull, and sacrifice everything, he is doing it wrong.

Simple steps.

1) Are you using max bulkheads? Yes or no?

2) You can use the draught slider to improve your rudder.

3) This is an old hull with very bad pitch values. So I strongly recommend having a heavy central armor belt. It is not only for protection, but also to increase weight in the central area and improve stability.

4) Use torpedoes with reloads.

I will post the design I used to win this mission as a reference.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2926296605
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2926296630

You can also try this. To have another main gun in the superstructure. I didn't use this to win this mission, but is probably the best option.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2926297366

And now for the simple tactic to win this mission.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gM1jMiLXRcA&t=14s

- Sail in a straight line to the nearest target, but with a slight angle, like you are trying to retreat from battle. This is to improve your guns' accuracy, but also to help you avoid the enemy torpedoes.
- The moment the target reach the 0.9 km mark is where you want your ship to start turning hard to the side.
- Your ship will use the torpedoes against the target. If they miss, you will still win precious time to sink the target with your guns.
- If the enemy is able to launch the torpedoes against you, because your ship is already turning, he is probably going to miss.
- repeat the process against the other targets.

[[J4F] Sentinel]

When I started redoing the Naval Academy missions after the end of EA it took me two or three attempts and different designs, but in the end I won it doing this

100% veterans, many bulkheads, 19kn, shortest range
11.3 main guns, 4x5.9 secondaries in casemates, 5 single gun 5.9 turrets (just 4 smaller 2'' guns). light shells, around 70% engine efficiency
Ridiculously thin armor, since you are getting constantly penetrated and wrecked no matter what (in the first attempts I tried to outclass them by armoring up, even if I avoided the torps the 7'' or 6'' inches always got through).

Then I forced the AI to try and stern chase me, they got mauled badly by my superior guns while trying to reach me. Had to restart once due to a lucky crippling hit at the second salvo that got my engine, but in the second run it was smooth sailing and gunning them down. Always try to force them to stay behind you, so that you profit from increased deflection and it's easier to dodge torps.

[the Baron]

An improved version to make it easier.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2926329025
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2926329008
- Light shells to improve the reload. The 9-inch main guns are more than enough to fight this CLs at close quarters.
- I added another underwater torpedo launcher (x4 now)
- But the biggest change is the main gun in the superstructure that should help to win the mission easier and quicker.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1AwyBmQjG8&t=4s

Note:
I use reduced shells, but this is probably not a good idea.
I also should have switched immediately to HE when the CA sunk. This could have probably saved me some minutes.

[toruk_makto1]

The first several matches I ran away, the largest ship had no trouble gaining on me and usually scored crippling hits.

I tried several times charging them up the middle and ran the line. This got them to all turn in at my stern.

Both styles of attack I usually sank two of them.

I tried several matches where I ran hard to starboard keeping them all oncoming and to port, and again ran the line taking two main gun volleys at each ship as I passed them each. In ONE of these scenarios I managed to sink FOUR of them including their capital ship but in the end it was an errant torpedo that got me

I have had exactly ZERO luck on getting torpedoes to even launch from my various designs so I gave up on that tactic and chose to follow the mission advice last sentence. Keep distance. Problem with torpedoes is, if they're close enough to hit, so are you. Good thought to remember in any firing situation. (prior military here: Marine)

I even played two games where I activated the game AI to operate my ship and he played mouse until being crippled and sunk both times

I max out bulkheads to the extent the specs allow before overfund or overweight. I set to 100 veteran every time.

[toruk_makto1]

Two more tried. First go: Sank the CA as well as a CL. Second go: Sank two CLs almost immediately (lucky hit on first throttled her, second one was done in by their own in a three ship ramming) both tries resulted in a nice 10,000 punch to my casemate and here comes the water

Keeping them at about 1.4Km seems to allow some hard hits. Also, dropping from my top speed of 18 Knots to 8 several seconds before my main guns fire tends to result in more hits

[IspartaPratapon]

Originally posted by mat552:

Sacrifice everything to get to 23kts, then start rolling the dice. If the AI generates CLs that are faster than you, restart. Then it's just a waiting game. You can't win unless you're lucky and get a magazine explosion, torpedo detonation, or a couple of really good waterline hits with a perfect 9" or 10" main battery hit.

This really feels like a challenge that was created early in the game's life and never updated for radical changes in mechanics.

It was only added in recently with the Maine hull. :0

[the Baron]

Originally posted by toruk_makto1:

I tried several times charging them up the middle and ran the line.

IMO, it is much better to pull them to the side and deal with one each time. This have the benefit that the enemies that are far away. 2-3 km +, will have an hard time to connect hits in your ship, helping you to survive longer. To control and dictate how the engagement will be, is the key to sucess. To charge in the middle of 5 ships armed with torpedoes is looking for troubles.

Originally posted by toruk_makto1:

Problem with torpedoes is, if they're close enough to hit, so are you.

True, that is why I suggest that tactic, to bait the AI to launch the torpedoes against you only when you are already turning. But this is a desperate measure. If you can kill them far away only with the guns, the better.

Originally posted by toruk_makto1:

I managed to sink FOUR of them including their capital ship but in the end it was an errant torpedo that got me

Almost there, You can do it :)

[wolfstanbjord]

Thank you "the Baron" every once in awhile one of the missions drives me insane. Sometimes you have to get out of your design box to find the answer, and your design was just what it took to get rid of this pesky mission!

[toruk_makto1]

I set on a center deck main gun (which actually barely got used as it really only fires starboard and aft to about 5 o-clock.

Added max casemate guns, a 6" on either side. And 5 torpedo tubes per side. Port did send a volley but the CL turned away too quickly. More maneuverable.

I obliterated the CH immediately. Then took two CLs out in succession on my main line drive before having to contend with the next two CLs. The forward CL which I was engaging got a lucky hit at my water line and that erased my engines.

That entire main line run was done at 8 knots and about 1.6 kilometers out.

Let's give it another go, shall we?

[the Baron]

Originally posted by toruk_makto1:

I set on a center deck main gun (which actually barely got used as it really only fires starboard and aft to about 5 o-clock.

This happens when you place the main gun in the superstructure near the side main guns. It will block the fire arc. But if you place in the middle, you can use it for both sides.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2926579258
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2926579311

[toruk_makto1]

This is an attempt at posting an image of the ship and stats of my setup...

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2926580222

[the Baron]

Originally posted by toruk_makto1:

This is an attempt at posting an image of the ship and stats of my setup...

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2926580222

You have already a very good pitch value if we take into consideration how bad is that hull.

Now, I would suggest this small changes.
- The main gun in the superstructure, place in the middle so it can fire both sides.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2926585659
- I would increase the beam to improve your guns accuracy.
- Note that you have a 36% weight offset. This can be fixed in many ways. The first step and easy way should be moving the funnels and secondary tower to the superstructure rear. if that is still not enough, then you can increase your aft armor, or decrease your bow armor, until you have an almost perfect weight offset.

[toruk_makto1]

Okay! So a very slight redesign by upgrading the conning towers forward and aft.

First two CLs I engaged, I cooked utterly! Flashfire!

Sank the other two CLs in succession with little damage. I did eat one torpedo to the bow but not before sending a volley of my own to destroy the last CL.

Turned parallel forward of the CH. Ultimately she got into my 0.9 radius and launched. I dodged, she spun out. Tossed a few hard hits on her, she on me. She came back, took all four of my torpedoes for only partial damage! Not enough to sink. I caught one of her torpedoes to the bow and that sunk me.

I think I have a good setup now.

We're learning!

[toruk_makto1]

Originally posted by the Baron:

Originally posted by toruk_makto1:

This is an attempt at posting an image of the ship and stats of my setup...

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2926580222

You have already a very good pitch value if we take into consideration how bad is that hull.

Now, I would suggest this small changes.
- The main gun in the superstructure, place in the middle so it can fire both sides.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2926585659
- I would increase the beam to improve your guns accuracy.
- Note that you have a 36% weight offset. This can be fixed in many ways. The first step and easy way should be moving the funnels and secondary tower to the superstructure rear. if that is still not enough, then you can increase your aft armor, or decrease your bow armor, until you have an almost perfect weight offset.

Unfortunately, The hull is not long enough. I tried, but then I cannot place either conning tower/bridge, or adequate smoke stacks.