About gun reload times and crew training level

[ohthot1227]

I see the gun reload time decreases as the crew gets more combat experience.
Which is only fair......till you unlock the auto loading systems.

Early DD/cruiser guns were mostly hand-loaded. and it should make sense for those guns to fire faster with a veteran crew.

But BB/CA guns with full auto loader system depending on the crew? hmmmm....
In theory if the loading system is indeed full auto, then the crew training level should have not much to do with it.

Of course, even in real history Battleships, It wasn't actually "full-auto", the crew needed to manipulate certain things, along with the loading machine. and thus the crew level actually does effect those procedures.

And historically the most modern US gun-fighting warships (specially CA,CL,DD) did use FULL auto.

But in game, I think the differance is just too big.

A 18 icnh Triple turret gun with auto load II modification takes about 98 sec to load in game with a noob crew. and It takes about 68 sec with a veteran crew.

and I don't think crew level should effect THAT much with a "auto load II" system.

And acording to wikipidia, the actuall yamato gun had a firing cycle of about 40~50 sec.
So even with veteran crew and the most advanced reload modifications, It's still a bit too slow compared to history.

It's not just the Yamato's guns either. German WWI 15 inch guns were known to be able to fire a shot every 38 seconds.

Which is almost impossible to achive with in-game 1915 tech.


What do you guys think? is it only mee who feels BIG gun reload times are a bit too slow?

[ohthot1227]

Originally posted by Cobalt60:

Well,good gun crews still feed and maintain the mechanisms. And,I imagine,auto-loaders needed regular upkeep(cleaning,greasing,inspections) to make sure they'd work in full battle.
Personally,I make sure the robots on my gun crews are in top shape and ready to chuck tons of munitions into my warwagon's guns. I mean,what sane human being would do that kind of work,under the conditions of battle on a warship. (The high temperatures in the turret from the gun discharges,the air choking with the chemical fumes of shell propellants,and,at regular intervals-God willing-the giant thunderclap whose sonics go thru to your bones when those guns fire.) I'll bet no human beings that ever worked a gun-crew on a battleship in-battle had very good hearing afterwards. :/ So,um,yes,they might be a bit slow.
The mk 5 generation of main guns fire _very_ fast indeed,for my tastes. Even with just 'enhanced reload',a twin-turret of 13-inch 60 guns is nasty. Until this game is balanced-out in other ways,I'm fine with the firing speed of the guns. ;)

The most advanced guns indeed have decent fire rates, and I don't have any problem with them either.

But consider the German 15inch mk.2 guns - they have a reload time of ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ 120 sec even with veteran crew and semi auto reload.

were as the historical counterpart - the german WWI 15 inch gun - the main guns for the bayern class - had a reload of 38 sec.

[DasMoss]

Yeah like @Cobalt60 said crew is required in some capacity. Generally a team is situated within the magazine loading charges and rounds into the loader which then hoists the rounds and powder up the barbette into position for the auto loader to ram in the components.

[ohthot1227]

Originally posted by DasMoss:

Yeah like @Cobalt60 said crew is required in some capacity. Generally a team is situated within the magazine loading charges and rounds into the loader which then hoists the rounds and powder up the barbette into position for the auto loader to ram in the components.

Yes, and I said in the article above I do expect some reload time changes from that too.

but I just think that effect is too great in game right now.

like a 60 sec reload becoming 50 sec under a veteran crew - realistic

but in game a 90 sec reload becoming 60? with a auto II system? I don't know...

What were the rookie crews even doing? tossing the round around for 30 secs before shoving it up the gun?

[ohthot1227]

Originally posted by Cobalt60:

I know. They (the rookie crews) were being yelled at by 1st class gunnery petty officers and the chief p.o. of that turret as they sweated and grunted to get those shells properly into position. Maybe it was some rookies that left the hatches open to the magazine compartments that fed the turrets on those battlecruisers that exploded during the battle of Jutland. Ouch. There's a little documentary about that historical battle that briefly details that event(Brittish cruisers exploding); those were,at the time,'modern' battlecruisers. The German gunnery was accurate. *ahem* Sorry. Blathering.

??? : somethin's wrong with our bloody ships today

[Aleks96]

big caliber guns have broken reload times, they are unplayable without balance mod

[cyan027]

You know Royal Navy already developed 20 inch naval gun in WW1, why didn't they use? That is the reason.

Originally posted by Aleks96:

big caliber guns have broken reload times, they are unplayable without balance mod

[the Baron]

"German WWI 15 inch guns were known to be able to fire a shot every 38 seconds."

23 second in ideal conditions.
http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNGER_15-45_skc13.php

[Aleks96]

Originally posted by cyan027:

You know Royal Navy already developed 20 inch naval gun in WW1, why didn't they use? That is the reason.

Originally posted by Aleks96:

big caliber guns have broken reload times, they are unplayable without balance mod

logistic, size of ammo, not being usefull, size of the gun necessary, a ♥♥♥♥ big enough would be too expensive etc etc

[cyan027]

On contrary, IJN's flagship Nagato, her 16" main guns should be able to fire a salvo every minute. But in action the firing circle is 90 seconds more.

Yamato's 18.1" main gun never seen in real action so we have no idea how fast (or how slow) it can fire. Designed firing rate is 1.2 ~ 1.5 ROUND per minute, that means 2 minutes to 2.5 minutes for a salvo. In real action it might take up to 3 ~ 5 minutes to fully reload.

Originally posted by the Baron:

"German WWI 15 inch guns were known to be able to fire a shot every 38 seconds."

23 second in ideal conditions.
http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNGER_15-45_skc13.php

[Renown]

Originally posted by ohthot1227:

I see the gun reload time decreases as the crew gets more combat experience.
Which is only fair......till you unlock the auto loading systems.

Early DD/cruiser guns were mostly hand-loaded. and it should make sense for those guns to fire faster with a veteran crew.

But BB/CA guns with full auto loader system depending on the crew? hmmmm....
In theory if the loading system is indeed full auto, then the crew training level should have not much to do with it.

Of course, even in real history Battleships, It wasn't actually "full-auto", the crew needed to manipulate certain things, along with the loading machine. and thus the crew level actually does effect those procedures.

And historically the most modern US gun-fighting warships (specially CA,CL,DD) did use FULL auto.

But in game, I think the differance is just too big.

A 18 icnh Triple turret gun with auto load II modification takes about 98 sec to load in game with a noob crew. and It takes about 68 sec with a veteran crew.

and I don't think crew level should effect THAT much with a "auto load II" system.

And acording to wikipidia, the actuall yamato gun had a firing cycle of about 40~50 sec.
So even with veteran crew and the most advanced reload modifications, It's still a bit too slow compared to history.

It's not just the Yamato's guns either. German WWI 15 inch guns were known to be able to fire a shot every 38 seconds.

Which is almost impossible to achive with in-game 1915 tech.


What do you guys think? is it only mee who feels BIG gun reload times are a bit too slow?

Yeah, heavy guns right now have awful and unrealistic reload times even with more advanced loading systems and high end crews. I find that guns in this game reload about 10-20% slower than equivalent guns in real life.

[the Baron]

Originally posted by Renown:

Yeah, heavy guns right now have awful and unrealistic reload times even with more advanced loading systems and high end crews. I find that guns in this game reload about 10-20% slower than equivalent guns in real life.

The real issue is when you start playing with the big guns. The situation is much worse. As an example you can make an Yamato guns with 18 inch guns. However you will probably get a reload time about 73 seconds or worse with the default barrel length. In reality the Yamato could expect about 35 seconds to reload at normal ranges.

"At the loading angle of +3 degrees, a firing cycle of about 30 seconds could be achieved. However, this would equate to a range of no more than 6,560 yards (6,000 m). The additional elevation and depression times required to reach an elevation of 41 degrees increased the firing cycle by about 11 seconds. As can be seen in the Range Table below, most ship-to-ship actions would rarely exceed an elevation of 20 degrees, so an intermediate time of 35 seconds would seem to be reasonable for most battle-range engagements. "

http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNJAP_18-45_t94.php

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9T3rvxlz03U&t=961s

Originally posted by cyan027:

On contrary, IJN's flagship Nagato, her 16" main guns should be able to fire a salvo every minute. But in action the firing circle is 90 seconds more.

"Firing cycle was 21.5 seconds at low elevations"

http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNJAP_161-45_3ns.php

With the time wasted to elevate and lower the barrel you can expect something around 30 seconds at normal ranges.

[Renown]

Originally posted by the Baron:

Originally posted by Renown:

Yeah, heavy guns right now have awful and unrealistic reload times even with more advanced loading systems and high end crews. I find that guns in this game reload about 10-20% slower than equivalent guns in real life.

The real issue is when you start playing with the big guns. The situation is much worse. As an example you can make an Yamato guns with 18 inch guns. However you will probably get a reload time about 73 seconds or worse with the default barrel length. In reality the Yamato could expect about 35 seconds to reload at normal ranges.

"At the loading angle of +3 degrees, a firing cycle of about 30 seconds could be achieved. However, this would equate to a range of no more than 6,560 yards (6,000 m). The additional elevation and depression times required to reach an elevation of 41 degrees increased the firing cycle by about 11 seconds. As can be seen in the Range Table below, most ship-to-ship actions would rarely exceed an elevation of 20 degrees, so an intermediate time of 35 seconds would seem to be reasonable for most battle-range engagements. "

http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNJAP_18-45_t94.php

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9T3rvxlz03U&t=961s

Originally posted by cyan027:

On contrary, IJN's flagship Nagato, her 16" main guns should be able to fire a salvo every minute. But in action the firing circle is 90 seconds more.

"Firing cycle was 21.5 seconds at low elevations"

http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNJAP_161-45_3ns.php

With the time wasted to elevate and lower the barrel you can expect something around 30 seconds at normal ranges.

You're preaching to the choir. I just recently made a similar post to the OP. I have a ship with 16/45 guns in two gun mountings using first generation autoloaders and somehow that ship only fires at 1.15 RPM. As opposed to, for example the Colorados that had similar mountings and guns and older loaders and yet could reload at 1.5 RPM.

[Hidden Gunman]

If you fiddle with barrel length and bore calibre, it impacts on load times...by improving them. Not exactly sure what the +-% relates to on the ship design menu, but hey, if it's green it's good...if it's red it's bad.

I'm so confused :(