Raking fire/grapeshot problem

[Zilincan]

So I tried numerous times to rake ship but it never worked, I understand that bow is angled and cannon balls get deflected but I saw them hitting deck which would cause huge casaulties and ship damage but nope, in game it result to zero damage and zero crew loss. Shooting at ship in T from front is absolutely useless, from behind you at least have 90 degree planking and have chance to hit rudder but thats about all

Grapeshot is killing crew too easily especially if planking on my ships is too strong enemy ships just switch to grapeshot and kill most of my crew. Really hate when they start sniping my crew at cannon ball distance

[IRDCAM]

Again most navies had 'drills' or ship design to minimalize casualties with raking ball or grape along decks. Deck 'clutter' alone can give adequite cover, or deck height above actual enemy gun line . 4 to 6lb'r guns are pretty weak, the larger 12-36lb'r do the actual 'damage'. Contrary to popular belief, wood fragmentation from hull or decking does little, Myth Busters and History Channel both have 'specials' on the subject. Pigs hung behind typical hull wall constructs, very little flesh damage on pigs near actual ball penatration.

Several good reference books on "Wooden Ships and Iron Men", era are out there, USNA has several good suggestions on the reality v hollywood.

[ToreDL87]

Not to piss on your parade but those drills and ship designs didnt seem to help the Spanish or French at Trafalgar (just one famous example among thousands of age of sail naval battles), and they had the worlds largest 1st rate, weather gage and every conceivable opportunity under the heavens to avoid it.
So.. I donno..

[IRDCAM]

Again exceptions. Ship design improved as 'bulkworks' began to appear on decking to prevent the mass casualties of raking fires along the decks near the time of Trafalgar, but older designs still abounded. Most of my reading on naval warfare of the era is based on actual achieves of the Royal Navy of the era. I have been interested in this era for quite a while. I have played many a simulation from the board and chit AH's Wooden Ships and Iron Men, SPI's Frigate, to the more modern computer simulations.

Look at the deck designs of the HMS Victory (I have walked her decks) and the USS Constitution (walked her decks as well) and how each were modified from original design as era progressed. The replica HMS Bounty (sunk recently by hurricane) was a totally 'modern' deck design to prevent the raking fire issues. As well as the HMS Surprise (Rose) of the movie Master and Commander a replica 1805 24 Gun Frigate, the scene where the French Frigate fires out of the fog and with the flash, Captain orders everyone down and few if any woundings or deaths, that was part of the design concept of bulkworks across the decking. A place of cover in the event of raking fires fore and aft or across the decking on open gun decks.

[Ninjasquirrel]

Originally posted by Zilincan:

So I tried numerous times to rake ship but it never worked, I understand that bow is angled and cannon balls get deflected but I saw them hitting deck which would cause huge casaulties and ship damage but nope, in game it result to zero damage and zero crew loss. Shooting at ship in T from front is absolutely useless, from behind you at least have 90 degree planking and have chance to hit rudder but thats about all

Grapeshot is killing crew too easily especially if planking on my ships is too strong enemy ships just switch to grapeshot and kill most of my crew. Really hate when they start sniping my crew at cannon ball distance

I agree with what you say, but just not to the degree you're putting it out to be. Raking from the bow, yeah grapeshot doesn't work as well but if you use roundshot and aim at the bowsprit or foremast there's a good chance you can knock them down. Raking the stern is absolutely devastating in this game. Kill lots of crew, dismount good amount of guns, and greatly reduce morale. On my larger frigates, a good raking stern shot will kill 80+ crew. Ship of the line, like 110+ casualties. That is a lot.

I was thinking the same thing about the grapeshot. I dunno if its just killing your crew manning the sails and upper deck or just straight going into your ship. I do know when I manual aim the hull for roundshot and forget to change the aiming point to the upper deck when I switch to grapeshot I get worse results. But since your sails have to be manned all the time, as long as you have reeserve crew they're always gonna send replacement up top where they can be killed by grapeshot. Not sure if this is the case or not.

[IRDCAM]

The higher 'forcastle' of the era ships prevented a full raking bow to stern as the forecastle was usually higher. The quarter deck, gun deck up to the forecastle was usually 'flush' meaning flat stern to forecastle, some designs had a raised quarter deck as well as protection for the lower gun decks, with a few bulkwork barriers across gun decks for 'cover'. The tactic was to approach the ship to be boarded with the bow with higher forecastle straight on to protect the gun crews and boarders from the raking fire of the target ship, a quick turn to bring hulls aside one another, graple and board also prevented lower gun decks from raking deck areas. Carronades were designed to be along the outside of the upper hull top frames so you could defend against boarders and rake enemy ship as her boarders were about to cross.

[Zilincan]

I never said anything about wood fragmentation but I would guess that cannon balls rolling along your deck should at least do some damage to deck cannons, deck crew and ship hull, None of that is happening. Right now I tried it, balls are falling on top of the deck and they do nothing. ship with 340 crew still have 340 crew and same HP. I have no idea what drill could possibly save you from 24 pounder cannon ball ballistic curve landing on top of your head

Originally posted by Ninjasquirrel:

I was thinking the same thing about the grapeshot. I dunno if its just killing your crew manning the sails and upper deck or just straight going into your ship. I do know when I manual aim the hull for roundshot and forget to change the aiming point to the upper deck when I switch to grapeshot I get worse results. But since your sails have to be manned all the time, as long as you have reeserve crew they're always gonna send replacement up top where they can be killed by grapeshot. Not sure if this is the case or not.

Maybe its really sail crew? I have no idea how much energy metal fragments can retain after some 400-500 yards but I still find grapeshot snipe ridiculous, also I would think that after few salvos crew start to hide and brace especially if their ship is fully intact and without any holes

[Ninjasquirrel]

Originally posted by Zilincan:

Maybe its really sail crew? I have no idea how much energy metal fragments can retain after some 400-500 yards but I still find grapeshot snipe ridiculous, also I would think that after few salvos crew start to hide and brace especially if their ship is fully intact and without any holes

I guess they start to "hide" when morale is low. Rate of fire is reduced and if you don't have enough reserve crew you lose control of the ship. Otherwise, the captain should keep ordering men to man the top to retain control of the ship.

[Wenzel]

I found that the larger/longer the enemy ship, the more effective raking gets.

The tricky part for me is hitting the opponent. Due to the way all broadside cannon fires are triggered at once, many shots will miss widely or ricochet off if you're close to the enemy ship. If you're not too close, however, shots quickly lose penetration power/damage due to the way space is compressed. It's a bit of a conondrum.

Interesting that you find grapeshot so strong. I had the opposite impression, but it's hard to tell without an actual situation at hand (which type of cannon, how much armor was left on the target ship?). I rather believe small arms fire is too effective. Having the crew hide with low morale would be an interesting approach, but I doubt that this is in the game?

[Zilincan]

On my 3rd rates or 5th rates later on enemy just use grapeshot and I usually end up with around 30% crew dead at the end of mission without taking any serious damage. Its not much every salvo but after whole mission time its a lot. I started again british campaign so when I get to that point I will post some screenshots.
Possible explanation is that my bigger ships just have a lot of crew - 300-400 for 4th/5th rates and 600+ for 3rd rates so grapeshot is more devastating to them than to their own which use around 200-280 crew most of the time. Bigger deck, bigger sails, more crew on top just as you said