Spell casters are WAAAY overly restricted in this game

[moysha]

What is the point of having a gun that can't shoot? Compared to thieves and fighters the spell casters are a joke, completely not fun to use. A general rework is required, IMO. I'd be fine if they could cast something every battle but the mana management is killing the category for me.

[MagiKarp]

Originally posted by Mortmal:

It gets better later; the AoE spells can inflict status effects, cause panic, and really help your melee characters. Blinding Bolt also helps with getting backstabs. Additionally, you can find recipes for Atonement Tonics in the refugee camp early on. They play like AD&D mages, and it’s better to use them for utility rather than damage.

You don't really need to find the recipes, you can just look at your ingredients and if you have 3 that say they are for the same potion you can craft them to learn the recipe.

[Marfin_]

I think the resource balance in this game is really tight and feels right for the dark survival theme the game has.

Crafting arrows, foraging to feed yourself; I like how much forethought is required to make sure you have enough resources to win a fight, or best yet, avoid the fight completely!

[Marfin_]

Originally posted by night4:

Yeah... this is the reason I refunded the game. Casters and spells are an absolute disaster right now and I'm not confident that any amount of patches will fix the fundamental problem of the dev hating casters.

It's fine to refund if the games is not to your tastes, but saying that the devs hate casters is obviously wrong.

Mages are very weak at the start, but if you can advance enough levels they become very strong. I haven't even got to the end game yet, just at level 8 they are very useful. The cascade mechanic alone makes mages very strong.

[WoodenMage]

Funny how the same people complaining about casters in SKALD would also be crying that low lvl wizards in Baldurs Gate 1 are "underpowered" and "needing rework".

"What do you mean I get 2 spellcasts per rest?! And have 6 hp??"

And they of course wouldn't realize spellcasters in these games simply start weak and gain tons of power later on.

[atmasabr]

Originally posted by slartifer:

^ this

(just don't expect an AD&D-style 10d6 fireball)

What about the 4d6 Fireball Red Mages get in Champions of Krynn?

[Marfin_]

Originally posted by WoodenMage:

Funny how the same people complaining about casters in SKALD would also be crying that low lvl wizards in Baldurs Gate 1 are "underpowered" and "needing rework".

"What do you mean I get 2 spell casts per rest?! And have 6 hp??"

And they of course wouldn't realize spellcasters in these games simply start weak and gain tons of power later on.

I played a Hierophant in my main game and felt the spellcaster was good. I read this post and decided to make a new arcane caster. Maybe they're really hard at the start?

So in character creation I have the option to put 3 points in the first fire skill and can get the spell, Fire Warrior, which grants +2 STR and Lesser Frenzy. I haven't tested it yet, but this seems like an amazing spell that helps you level your mage until it is 100% magic dependent.

I guess the people complaining about mages haven't played with the mechanics enough or gotten far enough in the game. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Frostfeather]

Originally posted by WoodenMage:

Funny how the same people complaining about casters in SKALD would also be crying that low lvl wizards in Baldurs Gate 1 are "underpowered" and "needing rework".

"What do you mean I get 2 spellcasts per rest?! And have 6 hp??"

And they of course wouldn't realize spellcasters in these games simply start weak and gain tons of power later on.

Not in the slightest. Mages/Sorcerers in BG1 are godly even at level 1. They're also very useful early on in the other Infinity Engine games, Pathfinder games, KotC2, Wizardry games, Ultima games, Pillars series, Final Fantasy 1, Lords of Xulima, ToEE, Arcanum, etc etc. There's no excuse for how they are in Skald.

And if you actually played Skald through or read from someone who has, you'd know that the issues with casters persist throughout the game.

[Andhaira]

I'm all for the low magic, gritty feel the game is going for. Mages should be encouraged to save their spells for when they are really needed; however when actually using them, especially direct damage they should greatly out perform the warriors, for that combat at least. If higher tier spells have this, that's good. If not, it should be tinkered with, such as increasing the damage of spells and/or reducing the cost.

I'm just starting the full game so it will be a while before I see for myself; in the old prologue though, the mage performed well enough with Fire Lash (the older version of the spell)

Still, not using magic a Magos should have had something else to fall back on, like a staff ability or something (i.e. staff rituals such as in The Dark Eye)

Battlemagos do need a rework though, for better weapon abilities and more HP, and medium armor.

[Frostfeather]

Originally posted by Marfin_:

Originally posted by night4:

Yeah... this is the reason I refunded the game. Casters and spells are an absolute disaster right now and I'm not confident that any amount of patches will fix the fundamental problem of the dev hating casters.

It's fine to refund if the games is not to your tastes, but saying that the devs hate casters is obviously wrong.

Mages are very weak at the start, but if you can advance enough levels they become very strong. I haven't even got to the end game yet, just at level 8 they are very useful. The cascade mechanic alone makes mages very strong.

The issue isn't being weak at the start and advancing over time. That's pretty much how every arcane caster works in almost any (c)RPG.

The issues are: high attunement costs. Attunement requires investment that doesn't scale anything else in combat like other classes would get. No spell list to look at to plan a character. Limited spells available. Awkward positioning requirements and highly situational spells. Low damage. And more.

No one is expecting to constantly blow everything up with spells at level 1. It's more of a "death by 1000 cuts" situation rather than what you're describing.

[BeerdedPhantom]

I don't know if the gun analogy was what you were looking for. Guns require ammunition. Without it, they can't shoot. What do you do, get angry at the gun maker and throw away the gun when it's empty? Go to their forums and start complaining about it?

This is an old-school RPG hearkening back to the days when melee classes' power scaled linearly and their resource was their health, and mages' scaling was quadratic and they expended mana or spell slots. The more powerful spells come later, as they should, and regardless of class you will need to learn to use consumables and your recovery abilities, or you'll be doing a silly amount of resting... and probably dying more than you need to. I promise you it's fine to have to skip a turn or two in combat sometimes while your other party members cover you, but you shouldn't have to do that too often if you're employing some amount of strategy and using consumables when needed.

Also worth noting: You can still use a weapon, even if you don't get lots of bonuses for it in your feats, so find an opening and sneak in a swing. Melee characters don't get the option to start throwing magic missiles while they're lying unconscious and bleeding because their resource is gone...

[Neo007]

Originally posted by Marfin_:

Originally posted by WoodenMage:

Funny how the same people complaining about casters in SKALD would also be crying that low lvl wizards in Baldurs Gate 1 are "underpowered" and "needing rework".

"What do you mean I get 2 spell casts per rest?! And have 6 hp??"

And they of course wouldn't realize spellcasters in these games simply start weak and gain tons of power later on.

I played a Hierophant in my main game and felt the spellcaster was good. I read this post and decided to make a new arcane caster. Maybe they're really hard at the start?

So in character creation I have the option to put 3 points in the first fire skill and can get the spell, Fire Warrior, which grants +2 STR and Lesser Frenzy. I haven't tested it yet, but this seems like an amazing spell that helps you level your mage until it is 100% magic dependent.

I guess the people complaining about mages haven't played with the mechanics enough or gotten far enough in the game. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

straw man much? @Marfin

no, the comments about mages are consistent across the board currently playing battle magos sticking with it but its the weakest class in my setup and im minmaxed, watched and read reviews from ppl who beat this game with full mages and maid similar comments. Its just unnecessarily under powered.

Also played several hundred hours in BG1 and beat it solo too, BG 1 absolutely isnt balanced but thats not the point, sorcerers and wizards make sense within the world and mechanics, besides you can multiclass in that game and a fighter with just two levels of mage is really powerful early on and stays relevant especially with items even more so than a regular fighter, so thats a fighter mage done right in my view.

The battle magos in this game is an even more gimped guild magos. The Champion class (divine hybrid fighter caster) on the other hand is a really powerful paladin cleric type, my current champion mercenary in this game is the strongest member of my party.(gets the most kills with cleave and still is best healer, buffer, diplomat with buying skills for discounts at shop, good reliable camp skills buffs shes just uber, while my Magos needs a lot of babysitting and resource management Im about lvl 8.

edit* btw I enjoy most of the mechanics but the criticisms and comparisons about the magos class are largely valid.

some have commented that Champion is least among the cleric classes (I dont agree) but either way its still has a huge advantage in power AND party utility over both Magos classes. There are objective mechanical reasons why that is the case. I pick Battle Magos for roleplay not utility or class efficacy.

[Frostfeather]

Originally posted by zero:

All these "?" avatar users sound like bots from 4chan on a Wednesday. Most of them post like scrubs with skill issue complaints tho.

I rest my case, good luck devs.

Insulting people means you have no actual argument.

[MagiKarp]

One thing that's kind of lame is that there's a ton of buffs in the game to improve melee and ranged but none of them actually improve magical aptitude.

[Macro Tofu]

Originally posted by WoodenMage:

Funny how the same people complaining about casters in SKALD would also be crying that low lvl wizards in Baldurs Gate 1 are "underpowered" and "needing rework".

"What do you mean I get 2 spellcasts per rest?! And have 6 hp??"

And they of course wouldn't realize spellcasters in these games simply start weak and gain tons of power later on.

Don't make people laugh. Mage in bg1 has the most op spell in the entire early game: sleep. You can level up to 5 without much effort exploiting that spell. In SKALD, however, nope, no such spells exist, and the 4th tieir spells aren't that impressive either without a boatload of mana potions to back your mage up.

[Macro Tofu]

Originally posted by Marfin_:

Originally posted by WoodenMage:

Funny how the same people complaining about casters in SKALD would also be crying that low lvl wizards in Baldurs Gate 1 are "underpowered" and "needing rework".

"What do you mean I get 2 spell casts per rest?! And have 6 hp??"

And they of course wouldn't realize spellcasters in these games simply start weak and gain tons of power later on.

I played a Hierophant in my main game and felt the spellcaster was good. I read this post and decided to make a new arcane caster. Maybe they're really hard at the start?

So in character creation I have the option to put 3 points in the first fire skill and can get the spell, Fire Warrior, which grants +2 STR and Lesser Frenzy. I haven't tested it yet, but this seems like an amazing spell that helps you level your mage until it is 100% magic dependent.

I guess the people complaining about mages haven't played with the mechanics enough or gotten far enough in the game. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

"I haven't tried my imaginary build yet, but I'll be dissing people for not trying it because it's seemingly good." LMAO