How does this compare to Forza Motorsport?

[stp602]

Like the title says...

I've sunk a lot of time into Motorsport, and while I enjoy it immensely, it seems worth my time to check out what else is out there. My home pc is practically a supercomputer and I have a logitech steering rig to work with.

How does Automobilista 2 compare?

[Vlad Tepes]

Well, there isn't any type of "career" in AMS2, but you can run multiple championships and you can customize them any way you want. You can run multiple classes. I think the cars and tracks in AMS2 are some of the best out there compared to all other driving sims.
The graphics are great, and the weather is incredible. You can choose real weather or program some storms. You can accelerate time such that you can drive a 24 hour endurance race in an hour if you want.
The historic cars are just wonderful, and (in my opinion) the best hidden gem is the Brazilan stock cars.. from the 1970s all the way to modern day. No other sim has this really great series which still runs in Brazil but nobody seems to know about.
Finally, the old F1 cars from the 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s. etc.. are better than any other sim in my opinion.
Online against other players.. it is ok but there aren't usually a lot of players.. I think you can get into races with 10-15 people sometimes.. other times it's not as busy..
I think it's worth a try as you get 2 hours from Steam and if you have a good computer then turn all of the graphics up!
I hope that helps!

[FaultyJawa]

^^^^ +1 to all of that.

This won't have the online population of Forza, but there are some great sim racing groups to join that do their own online events. I will say that night and rain racing in this game is hands down some of the best I've ever experienced, and the AI model is no slouch.

There is a supposed massive update coming in 1.6, and if it's anything like some of the testers have been making it sound, it's gonna be a better time than ever to give this a try. No ETA on it yet, but it should be before the end of this year.

[[SRS13]Rastus(TTT)]

Incomparable, tried both and in comparison FM is a total joke. Yeah that's just my opinion though.
Sure there's no raytracing etc but at least the visuals are sharper than my experience in FM.
The AI can actually race let alone drive, unlike FM.
On my 5800X3D + 7900XTX at 3840 x 1080 FM looks blurred to hell unless I use 200% scaling and lose half my fps rate as a result.
Shadows are atrocious, looking fuzzy and ill defined.
Colours look washed out, trees changing colour and shape at the LOD pop in distance.
The fps rates have improved in FM but it's still horrific imo...
The LOD draw distances are not right in your face in AMS2. E.G. the start gantry at Spa can be read from almost the final corner of the track whilst in FM you need to be 5-7 car lengths away from it and the ext suddenly appears, otherwise it's just blank.
You tell me which looks better out of the two...? (Set playback to 4K, the fps counter is green bottom left..)
33-72fps (this was just after launch and the fps rates have increased to around 50-90)
https://youtu.be/3NlpCnDgIMk?si=UBY0WP2Vi-JgAf1w
123-268fps
https://youtu.be/aAkI8jhMgos?si=_cJgsUX9thMINwAG

Player ratings are earned the hard way, over time and counting every race with ratings enabled, instead of being awarded after just 3 races then an average of just your last 10 races.
MP lobbies are all listed, take your pick and go racing, no messing about with upgrades, just tuning to suit your driving style.
So long as the host has the track DLC's even base game owners can join in (only "DLC car only" sessions will boot you out of the session), you can also use the DLC tracks in championship modes despite not owning the DLC.
40+ YEARS of weather data at most track locations for real weather on any given date in that time.
You wanna try replicate Jensen Buttons last to first race at a wet Montreal from 2011? Go pick the correct date and give it a try.
Wanna see if you can keep Mark Webbers CLK on the ground at Le-Mans or even worse round Nords? Go for it!
Hell you can even download custom AI files that replicate some of the best drivers in history...

Plenty of dedicated servers run by players and leagues galore (Discord, FB etc) with players of every skill level from novices to complete aliens, e.g. This race I had with Slipstream racing which was part of a 10 race championship (7 best results counted)
https://youtu.be/of8CSL7x4ZU?si=I2ZfZ1llaYSSR8nY
Racecraftonline running hourly/weekly MP races with their own ratings systems.
RWB (Racers Without Boarders) are planning to do more events. 2000+ members (Not all of them have AMS2 though).
https://www.rwbracing.club
Kerb Clippers Sim Racing (KCSR) have regular championships.
https://www.youtube.com/@kerbclippers5462/videos
Low Fuel Motorsport (LFM) integration testing is underway and possibly arriving in V1.6.

If you use the custom FFB files found on Reiza forums (100's of varieties for wheels from the G27/9 all the way to full blown direct drives) the game really comes alive, instead of feeling dead and wooden with massive deadzones at the wheels "top dead centre" which makes it feel like the FFB disappears like in FM.
It also doesn't take HOURS to figure out setting the FFB up, even the custom FFB files take just 2 minutes to DL and install.
You might need to search for Logitech specific variants (Think danielkart's files are for the G-series geared wheels, Stakanov also did extremely good files for all entry-mid level wheels, I used these on my T300RS).
https://forum.reizastudios.com/threads/automobilista-2-custom-force-feedback-overview-recommendations.11135/
Alternate thread with newer files.
https://forum.reizastudios.com/threads/automobilista-2-v1-4-force-feedback-overview-recommendations.26429/

The car tuning has a basis in real world car tuning/physics instead of forcing janky setups to keep a race car on track.
It's possible to match real world laptimes e.g. those vids above in FM I'm only capable of a best of 2:18.110, yet I still roflstomped the AI in just over 1 lap at max settings from 18th, in AMS2 it took me just over 3 laps to get from 24th to 1st with AI @ 100/Max (though they'll goto 120/Max and will be close to lap record pace).
In AMS2 I'm matching/beating the fastest race laptimes set in the 2019 6hrs of Spa, 2:13.858 vs the real laptime of Antonio Felix da Costa who did a race best time of 2:14.208.
Hell in FM I lapped one car and the closest to of them was 16.5 seconds behind me, 3rd place was 43 seconds away, and 4th just under 45 seconds.
Took me 11:25.083 for the 5 laps in AMS2 and all 23 AI cars were within 30 seconds all under 11:54 for 5 laps.
The fastest AI in FM did the 5 laps in 12:02, 7 seconds slower than the slowest AI in AMS2!
Put another way, if the AMS2 AI were in the same race and I was on FM physics and car tuning? Even I'd have been lucky to take 15th place with my total time of 11:45.649, over 20 seconds slower than my AMS2 time!

So no the 2 are not comparable in any way, yeah the GFX issues I have in FM are mostly about poor optimisation from T10 (though "full ultrawide and superultrawide support" was promised BEFORE FM launched...)

All ranting aside, my 1st advice is DON'T try the AMS2 demo! It's not been updated in 3 years. So it's not representative of the game now.
My 2nd advice?
Buy the base game, set a 90 minute timer on your phone and start it running.
Select a single race in the 2024 Stock cars @ Goiania (These cars already have the V1.6 tyres and that's a good track with a variety of corner types), add about 5-10 AI at around 85-90 skill and max aggression (which gives you something to chase).
Set the practice session for 90 minutes, spend some time dialling in the FFB (Maybe install the custom ffb files if you don't like default or default+ in game).
Spend the rest of the time chasing the AI around.
If the timer goes off and you don't like it? Refund it no loss...
If you're grinning like a fool BEFORE the timer runs out? Then seriously consider the DLC's but wait for a sale and save a packet!

And no AMS2 aint perfect, it has got issues like atm the cars feel a bit floaty and slidey but, this is being addressed in the upcoming V1.6 which has been in testing by gamers right now (Myself included) for the last 4 months, to try find and eliminate bugs before it's released.
Unlike Forza which seems more of a "That'll do.. OH S**T we broke it!!! PANIC STATIONS!!" effort...

FM is a s**tshow by comparison to AMS2, updates often break more than they fix and, it's been haemorrhaging players since launch.
AMS2 is night and day better (IMO at least), updates get rigorously tested by PLAYERS from all over the globe on all levels of hardware in an effort to avoid game breaking bugs.
The devs care more about the game than the cash in your wallet!

Maybe I'm biased as I'm involved in the beta testing and trying to over-promote the game.
What speaks volumes more than just My opinion is the steam player ratings...
Forza SteamDB rating? 42.04% positive (Xbox store rating 2.7/5 or 54% positive).
AMS2 SteamDB rating? 92.21% positive, right behind ACC (92.26%) and AC (92.46%).
That speaks volumes more than just my opinion....
Give it a try and make up your own mind... What else you gotta lose???

[Vlad Tepes]

Originally posted by SRS13Rastus(TTT):

Incomparable, tried both and in comparison FM is a total joke. Yeah that's just my opinion though.
Sure there's no raytracing etc but at least the visuals are sharper than my experience in FM.
The AI can actually race let alone drive, unlike FM.
On my 5800X3D + 7900XTX at 3840 x 1080 FM looks blurred to hell unless I use 200% scaling and lose half my fps rate as a result.
Shadows are atrocious, looking fuzzy and ill defined.
Colours look washed out, trees changing colour and shape at the LOD pop in distance.
The fps rates have improved in FM but it's still horrific imo...
The LOD draw distances are not right in your face in AMS2. E.G. the start gantry at Spa can be read from almost the final corner of the track whilst in FM you need to be 5-7 car lengths away from it and the ext suddenly appears, otherwise it's just blank.
You tell me which looks better out of the two...? (Set playback to 4K, the fps counter is green bottom left..)
33-72fps (this was just after launch and the fps rates have increased to around 50-90)
https://youtu.be/3NlpCnDgIMk?si=UBY0WP2Vi-JgAf1w
123-268fps
https://youtu.be/aAkI8jhMgos?si=_cJgsUX9thMINwAG

Player ratings are earned the hard way, over time and counting every race with ratings enabled, instead of being awarded after just 3 races then an average of just your last 10 races.
MP lobbies are all listed, take your pick and go racing, no messing about with upgrades, just tuning to suit your driving style.
So long as the host has the track DLC's even base game owners can join in (only "DLC car only" sessions will boot you out of the session), you can also use the DLC tracks in championship modes despite not owning the DLC.
40+ YEARS of weather data at most track locations for real weather on any given date in that time.
You wanna try replicate Jensen Buttons last to first race at a wet Montreal from 2011? Go pick the correct date and give it a try.
Wanna see if you can keep Mark Webbers CLK on the ground at Le-Mans or even worse round Nords? Go for it!
Hell you can even download custom AI files that replicate some of the best drivers in history...

Plenty of dedicated servers run by players and leagues galore (Discord, FB etc) with players of every skill level from novices to complete aliens, e.g. This race I had with Slipstream racing which was part of a 10 race championship (7 best results counted)
https://youtu.be/of8CSL7x4ZU?si=I2ZfZ1llaYSSR8nY
Racecraftonline running hourly/weekly MP races with their own ratings systems.
RWB (Racers Without Boarders) are planning to do more events. 2000+ members (Not all of them have AMS2 though).
https://www.rwbracing.club
Kerb Clippers Sim Racing (KCSR) have regular championships.
https://www.youtube.com/@kerbclippers5462/videos
Low Fuel Motorsport (LFM) integration testing is underway and possibly arriving in V1.6.

If you use the custom FFB files found on Reiza forums (100's of varieties for wheels from the G27/9 all the way to full blown direct drives) the game really comes alive, instead of feeling dead and wooden with massive deadzones at the wheels "top dead centre" which makes it feel like the FFB disappears like in FM.
It also doesn't take HOURS to figure out setting the FFB up, even the custom FFB files take just 2 minutes to DL and install.
You might need to search for Logitech specific variants (Think danielkart's files are for the G-series geared wheels, Stakanov also did extremely good files for all entry-mid level wheels, I used these on my T300RS).
https://forum.reizastudios.com/threads/automobilista-2-custom-force-feedback-overview-recommendations.11135/
Alternate thread with newer files.
https://forum.reizastudios.com/threads/automobilista-2-v1-4-force-feedback-overview-recommendations.26429/

The car tuning has a basis in real world car tuning/physics instead of forcing janky setups to keep a race car on track.
It's possible to match real world laptimes e.g. those vids above in FM I'm only capable of a best of 2:18.110, yet I still roflstomped the AI in just over 1 lap at max settings from 18th, in AMS2 it took me just over 3 laps to get from 24th to 1st with AI @ 100/Max (though they'll goto 120/Max and will be close to lap record pace).
In AMS2 I'm matching/beating the fastest race laptimes set in the 2019 6hrs of Spa, 2:13.858 vs the real laptime of Antonio Felix da Costa who did a race best time of 2:14.208.
Hell in FM I lapped one car and the closest to of them was 16.5 seconds behind me, 3rd place was 43 seconds away, and 4th just under 45 seconds.
Took me 11:25.083 for the 5 laps in AMS2 and all 23 AI cars were within 30 seconds all under 11:54 for 5 laps.
The fastest AI in FM did the 5 laps in 12:02, 7 seconds slower than the slowest AI in AMS2!
Put another way, if the AMS2 AI were in the same race and I was on FM physics and car tuning? Even I'd have been lucky to take 15th place with my total time of 11:45.649, over 20 seconds slower than my AMS2 time!

So no the 2 are not comparable in any way, yeah the GFX issues I have in FM are mostly about poor optimisation from T10 (though "full ultrawide and superultrawide support" was promised BEFORE FM launched...)

All ranting aside, my 1st advice is DON'T try the AMS2 demo! It's not been updated in 3 years. So it's not representative of the game now.
My 2nd advice?
Buy the base game, set a 90 minute timer on your phone and start it running.
Select a single race in the 2024 Stock cars @ Goiania (These cars already have the V1.6 tyres and that's a good track with a variety of corner types), add about 5-10 AI at around 85-90 skill and max aggression (which gives you something to chase).
Set the practice session for 90 minutes, spend some time dialling in the FFB (Maybe install the custom ffb files if you don't like default or default+ in game).
Spend the rest of the time chasing the AI around.
If the timer goes off and you don't like it? Refund it no loss...
If you're grinning like a fool BEFORE the timer runs out? Then seriously consider the DLC's but wait for a sale and save a packet!

And no AMS2 aint perfect, it has got issues like atm the cars feel a bit floaty and slidey but, this is being addressed in the upcoming V1.6 which has been in testing by gamers right now (Myself included) for the last 4 months, to try find and eliminate bugs before it's released.
Unlike Forza which seems more of a "That'll do.. OH S**T we broke it!!! PANIC STATIONS!!" effort...

FM is a s**tshow by comparison to AMS2, updates often break more than they fix and, it's been haemorrhaging players since launch.
AMS2 is night and day better (IMO at least), updates get rigorously tested by PLAYERS from all over the globe on all levels of hardware in an effort to avoid game breaking bugs.
The devs care more about the game than the cash in your wallet!

Maybe I'm biased as I'm involved in the beta testing and trying to over-promote the game.
What speaks volumes more than just My opinion is the steam player ratings...
Forza SteamDB rating? 42.04% positive (Xbox store rating 2.7/5 or 54% positive).
AMS2 SteamDB rating? 92.21% positive, right behind ACC (92.26%) and AC (92.46%).
That speaks volumes more than just my opinion....
Give it a try and make up your own mind... What else you gotta lose???

Best post I've seen in years. Nice! To the OP, you won't be disappointed.

[Saab Jitsu]

^^^^^ Yeah that. I'm 700+ hours in and it's still fun. Never played Fm but do have FM7 and it's fun, just not the same as AMS2. Catch it on sale and enjoy, you won't be sorry.

[J.J.McClure]

Buy it, play it and if you don't like it, give it back, easy, right?
But it's certainly not that easy to just drive a race on the sofa with the controller.
It takes a while until you really master one vehicle on one race track.
Especially if you really live the word simulation. No driving aids, no displays other than those in the vehicle. Everything else is just outrun from the arcade of the 80s.
I can only personally recommend the Crew Chief. It lets you immerse yourself more deeply. But only if the era of the vehicle allows it. In the sixties and seventies there was no radio communication between the pit and the vehicle.
The driver and not the engineers decided when it was time to change tires or save fuel.
But if you master all of that and have a good steering wheel, it's really fun to race around the race track at half past four in the morning at sunrise and in light fog.
It doesn't have to be a hyper-duper show-off steering wheel.
A complete set for 400 euros is completely sufficient.
So don't let anyone tell you that you have to have a steering wheel that costs the equivalent of a used small car. You don't need load cell pedals either.
The only thing you really need is a pair of VR glasses.
Then you always have the right steering wheel in front of your eyes and all the displays in view. You also always have the correct perspective (Fov). But that's the icing on the cake. Videos can't even come close to conveying the feeling.
I hope you catch the sim racing virus like I have since my Amiga 500 and Grand Prix.

[thief_035]

Originally posted by SRS13Rastus(TTT):

Maybe I'm biased

maybe :p

[Dud]

Originally posted by SRS13Rastus(TTT):

Incomparable, tried both and in comparison FM is a total joke. Yeah that's just my opinion though.
Sure there's no raytracing etc but at least the visuals are sharper than my experience in FM.
The AI can actually race let alone drive, unlike FM.
On my 5800X3D + 7900XTX at 3840 x 1080 FM looks blurred to hell unless I use 200% scaling and lose half my fps rate as a result.
Shadows are atrocious, looking fuzzy and ill defined.
Colours look washed out, trees changing colour and shape at the LOD pop in distance.
The fps rates have improved in FM but it's still horrific imo...
The LOD draw distances are not right in your face in AMS2. E.G. the start gantry at Spa can be read from almost the final corner of the track whilst in FM you need to be 5-7 car lengths away from it and the ext suddenly appears, otherwise it's just blank.
You tell me which looks better out of the two...? (Set playback to 4K, the fps counter is green bottom left..)
33-72fps (this was just after launch and the fps rates have increased to around 50-90)
https://youtu.be/3NlpCnDgIMk?si=UBY0WP2Vi-JgAf1w
123-268fps
https://youtu.be/aAkI8jhMgos?si=_cJgsUX9thMINwAG

Player ratings are earned the hard way, over time and counting every race with ratings enabled, instead of being awarded after just 3 races then an average of just your last 10 races.
MP lobbies are all listed, take your pick and go racing, no messing about with upgrades, just tuning to suit your driving style.
So long as the host has the track DLC's even base game owners can join in (only "DLC car only" sessions will boot you out of the session), you can also use the DLC tracks in championship modes despite not owning the DLC.
40+ YEARS of weather data at most track locations for real weather on any given date in that time.
You wanna try replicate Jensen Buttons last to first race at a wet Montreal from 2011? Go pick the correct date and give it a try.
Wanna see if you can keep Mark Webbers CLK on the ground at Le-Mans or even worse round Nords? Go for it!
Hell you can even download custom AI files that replicate some of the best drivers in history...

Plenty of dedicated servers run by players and leagues galore (Discord, FB etc) with players of every skill level from novices to complete aliens, e.g. This race I had with Slipstream racing which was part of a 10 race championship (7 best results counted)
https://youtu.be/of8CSL7x4ZU?si=I2ZfZ1llaYSSR8nY
Racecraftonline running hourly/weekly MP races with their own ratings systems.
RWB (Racers Without Boarders) are planning to do more events. 2000+ members (Not all of them have AMS2 though).
https://www.rwbracing.club
Kerb Clippers Sim Racing (KCSR) have regular championships.
https://www.youtube.com/@kerbclippers5462/videos
Low Fuel Motorsport (LFM) integration testing is underway and possibly arriving in V1.6.

If you use the custom FFB files found on Reiza forums (100's of varieties for wheels from the G27/9 all the way to full blown direct drives) the game really comes alive, instead of feeling dead and wooden with massive deadzones at the wheels "top dead centre" which makes it feel like the FFB disappears like in FM.
It also doesn't take HOURS to figure out setting the FFB up, even the custom FFB files take just 2 minutes to DL and install.
You might need to search for Logitech specific variants (Think danielkart's files are for the G-series geared wheels, Stakanov also did extremely good files for all entry-mid level wheels, I used these on my T300RS).
https://forum.reizastudios.com/threads/automobilista-2-custom-force-feedback-overview-recommendations.11135/
Alternate thread with newer files.
https://forum.reizastudios.com/threads/automobilista-2-v1-4-force-feedback-overview-recommendations.26429/

The car tuning has a basis in real world car tuning/physics instead of forcing janky setups to keep a race car on track.
It's possible to match real world laptimes e.g. those vids above in FM I'm only capable of a best of 2:18.110, yet I still roflstomped the AI in just over 1 lap at max settings from 18th, in AMS2 it took me just over 3 laps to get from 24th to 1st with AI @ 100/Max (though they'll goto 120/Max and will be close to lap record pace).
In AMS2 I'm matching/beating the fastest race laptimes set in the 2019 6hrs of Spa, 2:13.858 vs the real laptime of Antonio Felix da Costa who did a race best time of 2:14.208.
Hell in FM I lapped one car and the closest to of them was 16.5 seconds behind me, 3rd place was 43 seconds away, and 4th just under 45 seconds.
Took me 11:25.083 for the 5 laps in AMS2 and all 23 AI cars were within 30 seconds all under 11:54 for 5 laps.
The fastest AI in FM did the 5 laps in 12:02, 7 seconds slower than the slowest AI in AMS2!
Put another way, if the AMS2 AI were in the same race and I was on FM physics and car tuning? Even I'd have been lucky to take 15th place with my total time of 11:45.649, over 20 seconds slower than my AMS2 time!

So no the 2 are not comparable in any way, yeah the GFX issues I have in FM are mostly about poor optimisation from T10 (though "full ultrawide and superultrawide support" was promised BEFORE FM launched...)

All ranting aside, my 1st advice is DON'T try the AMS2 demo! It's not been updated in 3 years. So it's not representative of the game now.
My 2nd advice?
Buy the base game, set a 90 minute timer on your phone and start it running.
Select a single race in the 2024 Stock cars @ Goiania (These cars already have the V1.6 tyres and that's a good track with a variety of corner types), add about 5-10 AI at around 85-90 skill and max aggression (which gives you something to chase).
Set the practice session for 90 minutes, spend some time dialling in the FFB (Maybe install the custom ffb files if you don't like default or default+ in game).
Spend the rest of the time chasing the AI around.
If the timer goes off and you don't like it? Refund it no loss...
If you're grinning like a fool BEFORE the timer runs out? Then seriously consider the DLC's but wait for a sale and save a packet!

And no AMS2 aint perfect, it has got issues like atm the cars feel a bit floaty and slidey but, this is being addressed in the upcoming V1.6 which has been in testing by gamers right now (Myself included) for the last 4 months, to try find and eliminate bugs before it's released.
Unlike Forza which seems more of a "That'll do.. OH S**T we broke it!!! PANIC STATIONS!!" effort...

FM is a s**tshow by comparison to AMS2, updates often break more than they fix and, it's been haemorrhaging players since launch.
AMS2 is night and day better (IMO at least), updates get rigorously tested by PLAYERS from all over the globe on all levels of hardware in an effort to avoid game breaking bugs.
The devs care more about the game than the cash in your wallet!

Maybe I'm biased as I'm involved in the beta testing and trying to over-promote the game.
What speaks volumes more than just My opinion is the steam player ratings...
Forza SteamDB rating? 42.04% positive (Xbox store rating 2.7/5 or 54% positive).
AMS2 SteamDB rating? 92.21% positive, right behind ACC (92.26%) and AC (92.46%).
That speaks volumes more than just my opinion....
Give it a try and make up your own mind... What else you gotta lose???

Err, What he said.

[depapier]

Favorably

[stp602]

I've only put the paces through the demo so far, and I'm impressed. Something about Forza always feels too easy, too arcade-y, not real-enough. If that makes any sense.

I don't have nearly as much free time this weekend as I expected, so I'll wait until the next paycheck to make my purchase, because I'll be spending next weekend behind the wheel.

Thank you much for your perspectives!

[[SRS13]Rastus(TTT)]

Originally posted by stp602:

I've only put the paces through the demo so far, and I'm impressed. Something about Forza always feels too easy, too arcade-y, not real-enough. If that makes any sense.

I don't have nearly as much free time this weekend as I expected, so I'll wait until the next paycheck to make my purchase, because I'll be spending next weekend behind the wheel.

Thank you much for your perspectives!

Glad you had a positive experience in the demo, most people don't (probably they're coming from other sim racers rather than simcade or arcade racers? IDK).

The game has gotten a LOT better since the demo released though and, with V1.6 not far away? It's only gonna get even better...

[ZeroFiveFour]

Just want to echo, DO NOT JUDGE AM2 on the demo. The Demo is terrible. I tried the demo 2 times over a period of a year, and Hated it. Resulting in Not buying AM2, then I saw a Youtube video of someone racing Daytona and could NOT believe this was the SAME game. The Demo is so bad its unfortunate. I currently have nearly all the Sim racing/arcade Racing titles. AM2 for single player is my favorite atm. I wish I would have bought it sooner, but the terrible Demo dissuaded me from doing so. FM and AM2 are two very different animals.

[mœw]

The developer love of cars is very noticeable with AMS2 in comparison to Forza devs who don't care about authenticity.