Pros and Cons

[KennyMcyD]

My Background:

Many (too many) years of P(ersonal) C(omputer) Sim Racing mainly with the following...

Papyrus Nascar from original to 2003
RFactor
iRacing

Recently have tried a few other Sims as I really wanted a quality Sim with an experience like I had with Nascar 2003 where I could race against my friends and fill a field of cars with competitive/realistic AI. Tried the following as a result...

AMS2
RFactor 2
Race Room

Result is that AMS2 is the one I find myself wanting to jump on and race... That leads me to the Pros and Cons... I share my view on this because it appears that the Team behind this Sim appears to be dedicated to continuous improvements... no Sim is perfect and AMS2 is no different... I can only hope that their focus is on the race experience and core functionality of the game as that seems to be what is lacking in other Sims these days... it's interesting that back in the 90's the Nascar games from Papyrus were simply amazing and they focused intently on the experience of the actual racing... over time, they kept up with technology and advanced the graphics and online abilities but simply put, the product did it all from the start...

Paint your own vehicle
Share Setups
Quick access to practice vs Qualify vs Race Setups
Race against friends and AI (even over dial-up modem at the time)
Adjust AI for each driver by track, qualifying vs race ability, etc.
You get the picture... just amazing stuff

For what ever reason we are now 25+ years further out from when that was available and we seem to be waiting to get back there... sure new Sims have taken advantage of sounds and graphics and laser scanned cars and tracks (AMS2 is doing a Great job on that), but the core functionality isn't quite to even where it was 25+ years ago... I hope that AMS2 will continue to focus on improvements and take into consideration the details of the core racing experience as they do...

AMS2 Pros:
Graphics... top notch...
Sound... Arguably the BEST in all of Sim Racing...
UI... always a tough one but I think AMS2 has done a really good job on making a fairly intuitive interface to the game (Dedicated server... not so much)
Load Times... out of sight good
FFB... probably one of the best in Sim Racing if not the best
Some really amazing cars (including the F1 Ultimate Gen2)
Physics - many cars are really near spot on

AMS2 Cons: (currently)
AI on track realism - way to much follow the leader lap after lap only an inch off of each other; overtaking doesn't actually complete as the inside car with the run backs out abruptly when the outside car should back out; cars should back off to get a run off the corner not be glued to the car in front
AI Management - interface needed
Replay Interface - trackside camera doesn't visually pick up newly selected vehicle; have to mouse over and/or click on some things to get others to become active
Lack of personal Driver skins let alone ability to just select from basic skins
Integrating personal skins - need interface
Sharing personal skins
Sharing Setups
Online Interface and Community (compared to iRacing)
Physics - others have demonstrated that some cars are just not close and not any fun to drive

Truthfully, I spend most of my time on iRacing... their physics are not great, graphics leave a bit to be desired (as well as sound), and their AI is limited to cost based hosting if I want to race with friends... however, I can race online anytime (always many races to choose from with many participants), and the AI racing is really good (and if not, you can easily tweek the AI to put on a good show)... I literally setup iRacing AI races and just watch 30 lap races through the well put together Live replay functions and am finding myself being legitimately entertained by the racing that goes on...

What would make the biggest difference for me personally to jump on AMS2 vs iRacing is the following...

Rework the AI until they alone put on a great race (not the nose to tail and inch apart train that it basically currently is), integrate the AI with the human racers to an even smoother degree than current, FIX the replay/Live camera functionality/features for crying out loud (lol), and provide the ability to insert personal driver skins...

Oh yeah, more tracks and cars are always needed... but I don't see a problem paying for those or maybe to get more folks racing online, earn new cars and tracks (not updates to cars and tracks, those should not cost) via game play...

I appreciate the effort that has gone into this Sim and I only share my opinions because I personally would like to see the game more complete and a truly immersive experience before we unleash the beast and make every track possible and every vehicle possible (which will be awesome as well)...

Lastly, thanks again for the hard work we really do appreciate it... but please never underestimate constructive feedback, it literally may be just the thing(s) that make all the difference in the world, there are many Sims that will never sustain, I truly hope that this sets the bar as the exception...

Note: I really feel the AI thing is simply getting the AI to legit make a pass, the train scenario is only because the car behind has caught the car ahead and instead of literally finishing a pass once one is started, they back off... but don't lose ground in backing off which then puts them on the bumper again instead of getting another bit of momentum to try another pass... no way a car should back out every time without trying to outbreak if it has momentum and a line... and no way that if it backs out, it doesn't lose some ground...

[Mindzen]

Nascar Racing 2003 fanatic here. Been racing for over a LONG time.

The lack of easy setup file sharing in this game is unforgivable and a HUGE setback in my opinion. In NR2003, it is so easy ... copy pasta in a folder .... I have HUNDREDS of setups for each tracks and love to just experiment with them from time to time.

Allowing easy copy pasta setup capabilities would open this game up so much. I'm gonna be honest, I don't have time or energy to figure out the optimal setups for each car on each track for each condition for each time of day AND THEN .. figure out the correct AI setting once I zone it in.

If I could just copy pasta setups and try them out, it would make this game much more enticing and enjoyable, although it still wouldn't override the horrendous AI. But I would definitely play it much more. I just don't want to spend this much time with setups when I get in a race and get divebombed over and over and run into on the side on the straights at Daytona road. It's not that I'm lazy ... It's just not COST effective for me. NR2003, i put that time in, because it was WORTH it.

I baffles me how the developers wouldn't see how big of a plus this would be to their product. This would cater to the casuals without ANY negative effects to the sims. Everybody would be happy.

[Shriukan]

Originally posted by thpf77:

Nascar Racing 2003 fanatic here. Been racing for over a LONG time.

The lack of easy setup file sharing in this game is unforgivable and a HUGE setback in my opinion. In NR2003, it is so easy ... copy pasta in a folder .... I have HUNDREDS of setups for each tracks and love to just experiment with them from time to time.

Allowing easy copy pasta setup capabilities would open this game up so much. I'm gonna be honest, I don't have time or energy to figure out the optimal setups for each car on each track for each condition for each time of day AND THEN .. figure out the correct AI setting once I zone it in.

If I could just copy pasta setups and try them out, it would make this game much more enticing and enjoyable, although it still wouldn't override the horrendous AI. But I would definitely play it much more. I just don't want to spend this much time with setups when I get in a race and get divebombed over and over and run into on the side on the straights at Daytona road. It's not that I'm lazy ... It's just not COST effective for me. NR2003, i put that time in, because it was WORTH it.

I baffles me how the developers wouldn't see how big of a plus this would be to their product. This would cater to the casuals without ANY negative effects to the sims. Everybody would be happy.

Just because it's not in yet doesn't mean the devs don't think it would be a better idea than the current system but they're a small team and need to pick priorities carefully. They have come a very long way already from 2,5 years back so I could see this change happening down the line (a year or two away).
Another point to be made is that the ME encrypts the setup files so they'd need to learn how to change the core file system to generate usable and shareable files since they're already saved in your documents.

[b0]

i agree with everything, literally the only downside for me is VR performance in rain and thunderstorm and sometimes clarity, compared to project cars 2 which runs twice better in VR and often looks better in VR, but that's about it

[thief_035]

Originally posted by Deuce:

My Background:
Papyrus Nascar from original to 2003
RFactor
iRacing
AMS2
RFactor 2
Race Room


AMS2 Pros:

Sound... Arguably the BEST in all of Sim Racing in all sims i tried so far

here, i fixed it for you...
you are welcome! : )

[Nats]

Good post OP I agree with it all. Old computer games didnt have the graphics abilities games have now but they made up with it in providing great gameplay. I wish present day developers would spent a lot of time on programming great gameplay but very few do.

One game that does amaze me is F1 2022. Just yesterday I spent ages on the same tyres and when I came in they were really visibly worn. I thought that was an amazing detail. Same as if you hit a car you see some great damage on the side panels etc.

This is present to lesser degree in AMS2 where the cars gradually get dirty over a race. I love seeing that. Just wish the worn tyres were depicted and more damage variations were in the game. And more mechanical failures.

I agree that the main thing that needs working on in AMS2 is the AI. Whereas AMS2 is getting better every month though it could be a heck of a lot better than it is in terms of AI attacking and defending. I love the way the AI can make mistakes in AMS2 though.

Love seeing little details in games.

[MISTER WU]

Thanks for the very detailed post there Deuce.

I think you hit some really greats points about this game and others and a very well thought post with out being to fan boyish* and explaining your reasons about the Pro's & Cons's.

I do find the menu navigation a little tiring when you save a setup, it should automatically load you back into the pits ready to hit the drive button. I find 3 clicks to get back is a big thing in VR because i have to keep looking left and right and make sure i click the right thing lol. If you accidently not save the setup, it will add the * to the setup and trying to delete that will crash the game every single time.

All in all, yes this game does have some issues but its also a work in progress and will be for some time to come, this has been mentioned a few times by the Devs.

[[SRS13]Rastus(TTT)]

Well thought out and well presented.
Makes a change from the usual "AMS 2 is garbage because it doesn't play like XXX game.." we tend to see.
Regarding the AI though (and this is just a personal observation), at lower levels they do indeed tend to "follow the train".
If you're beating them hands down (say 2-3 seconds per lap) then increase the difficulty and more importantly the aggression, this SEEMS to make them fight more for positions plus also reduces the instances of sudden twitching from side to side for no apparent reason.

Glad to see that, despite you're list of cons, you still appreciate the work Reiza have done and what they HAVE done well, as opposed to ranting about a single flaw/issue as being a complete game breaker. Instead, adding constructive ideas for future progress.

@Shurikan is absolutely correct in saying AMS 2 team is small, they currently list just 24 staff and a revenue of $4,600,000. Hell the programmer responsible for the Formula Reiza Gen 2 cars was working in a warzone (Ukraine). Until Reiza stepped in and paid for their relocation to Brazil along with a counterpart from Russia.
Reiza don'e actually HAVE an office as they mostly work from home.
Compared to others this is SERIOUSLY small fry...
e.g. SMS with 163 staff and $39.6M or Codemasters with 497 staff and $1581M.
SMS created the game engine used in AMS2 and their last effort PC3 "all the sim you'll need" (Ian Bell CEO of SMS) which turned out to be an arcade S**tshow so bad it was the worst player reviewed game in SMS/Codemasters history (until SMS released Fast and Furious Crossroads).

Both companies have ruined their reputation to the point SMS sold out to Codemasters who less than 2 years later sold out to EA (the worst out there for p**s poor support) for the grossly high sum of $1.2 BILLION. Now even EA is looking to sell themselves with discussions apparently being held with Disney, Comcast/NBC Universal, Apple and even Amazon, so far they've all said NOPE! Which is no surprise given EA's attitude to THEIR customers.

So yeah, this just makes what they've achieved so far utterly ASTONISHING, especially with other devs abandoning their products in favour of the bi-annual cash grab whilst refusing to fix glaringly bad issues with their current efforts...

[rallysmo]

talking about they´re on track already end of the month and no update for one of the biggest improvements for the sim or its for the next month

[UFO Reality]

PROS : VR implementation and ongoing game development

CONS: Inconsistencies that it could be nearly classed as Early Access. oooh. a bit harsh.

Honestly, I think this game is worth spending some time on. The Madness Engine in regards to physics and ffb is probably a giant monster to wrestle down or Reiza just doesn't have enough devs to work it.

[Nats]

I dont think the devs have let the Madness engine restrict them - the game physics seem pretty much there now for all the cars. They just need to address the AI really, it would be a really superb game if they were a little bit less predictable.

Oh and perhaps provided more setups in the game to choose from rather than just the default one, and provided better pitstops.