Signal Placement Madness

[SkyKing]

I love the game, really do. Now that I am getting into longer plays on larger maps, placing directional signals on railway tracks are getting to be cumbersome is to say the least! I am frustrated to point I can't even enjoy the game. Why an automated tool of placing signals on the tracks in desired intervals is not part of signal placement is beyond understanding. There is only one mod that us suppose to to that but reading the comments, it does not work as intended all the time and its not achievements compatible so the moment you turn it on, you wont get any achievements. I mean there isn't a single tool available in the game to gauge the distance or anything, so you are left to eye balling the placements. Plus a little help with where to place the signals would be nice when at junctions as such. The game really needs an automated signal placement tool with helpful indications of if you are placing the signals at correct locations. You get to see the length of roads and tracks you are placing so why not the ability to see where and how often you are placing the signals. Grrrrrrr.

[General Tso]

You might be placing more signals than needed. Is so, then reducing the number placed will help alleviate the pain. Hopefully someone who is more knowledgeable on the subject will chip in with some pointers.

You could also use this mod to get achievements back while using other mods.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1934088615

[Vimpster]

I think you are using way more signals than needed. If only a single line uses a double track than you only need as many signals as there are trains. Which also has the advantage of forcing them to evenly space themselves.
Only when you have multiple lines sharing a double track do you benefit from increasing the number of signals beyond the number of trains. And even then the extent of the advantage depends on the concentration of trains.

[Tsubame ⭐]

The signalling mod you are referring - I assume - to has a distance tool you can use to deploy signals every so often.

In general, it works well, especially for your average "connect the dots" TpF 2 setup.

It will work less effectively in more complex track setups, as the mod stops looking as soon as something interrupts the tracks, including rail switches.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2138210967

For achievements, use the mod suggested above.

Track setups are highly variable, and so are vehicle lengths - i.e. no point using signals every 200 meters if the trains running in that section are significantly longer than that - and signalling may not even be required or desired - i.e. single tracks - so in general, manual placement of it is preferrable.

[SkyKing]

Thank you for your reply. Yes, that's the mod I was referring to and unfortunately it's not achievements compatible. As soon as its activated, the achievements are turned off. So what I do know, I use the single track passenger station with varying length options (usually 320 mtrs) to measure the distance between each signal while placing it. It's a excruciating process but only way to place tracks with intended intervals...I just wish the game would have this build in somehow...

[SkyKing]

Originally posted by General Tso:

You might be placing more signals than needed. Is so, then reducing the number placed will help alleviate the pain. Hopefully someone who is more knowledgeable on the subject will chip in with some pointers.

You could also use this mod to get achievements back while using other mods.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1934088615

Thank you, I was not aware of this mod, I will give it a try.

[SkyKing]

Well, I am not so sure about placing too many signals; basically amount of signals determines how many trains you can have running on that particular line without running into traffic jams and as such. So I have two cities that are far apart and I was able to place 12 signals with 320 mtrs intervals in between them. Will I ever run 12 trains back and forth between those cities? I don't know yet, my cities haven't grown that much so far. I can see there will be no need for that many for passenger trains, yet cargo, yeah it may get up close to that since I have many industries connecting to them both and given the limitation of good types that can be loaded, 3 sets of cargo trains are needed at a minimum to successfully deliver all the raw and produced materials in between them. Thank you for the suggestions and replies.

[Tsubame ⭐]

To enable achievements back, use the mod suggested by General Tso in post #2 above.

The signalling mod above includes a preset where you can change the distance between signals, so no need to measure anything manually.

If you do not want to use the signalling mod, you could use this mod so you could simply use tracks as opposed to a station, for manual measurements:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2298331429

Given station to station line lengths are about 2-3 km or so, very roughly speaking, you do not need a ton of signals.

Assuming the line is double tracked, you do not need any signals at all if you only have 2 trains operating in that section, as stations do have their own inbuilt signals.

For every train you add thereafter in this section, you must add at least a signal. Alternative platforms may enable you to run an extra train you would otherwise be unable to, though.

[SkyKing]

Excellent feedback, allow me to give all these a try and see how everything works out. Thank you again.

[Zapp]

This game just isn't made in the mindset of modellers looking to create prototypical scenarios.

The easiest solution is just to eyeball it, and place signals roughly every X hundred yards, even if they sometimes end up closer together and sometimes farther apart.

I realize that's not what you want to hear. I just think it's useful to see this game for what it is.

Personally I don't fuss about such things. This game does offer considerable enjoyment, but mostly to those of us who doesn't even attempt realistic or prototypical solutions

[SkyKing]

I hear you, good advice.

[marchingmongoose]

One very frustrating thing is to place signals and have the newly placed signal cause a traffic jam. A good rule to remember is that a signal is where you intend to have a train stop. If this signal will cause a train to stand over a junction, the other trains will not be allowed to move into that junction. Always place a signal right before a junction or switch, and the next signal should be further down the line to allow your longest train to clear the switch.

Signals should also be used to split a very long section of track into smaller blocks. For single track, a siding should be used, with one-way signals all the way at the end, before it becomes single track again. This will allow a train to stand in the siding and wait for a train to move in the opposite direction.

I like how they did the signalling in the game, and I keep coming back to it, but it is very basic, and uses absolute blocks. There are no approach signals, which allow a signal to check the status of the signal in front of it. This is called pre-signal or chain signal in other games like TTD or Factorio.

I would love to do a Youtube on where to use single/double track, how to complete a double track project, and proper signalling, but I havent gotten around to it. Maybe one day I'll find the time.

There is no option for timetable, rolling block (as in CBTC), approach signals or distant signals, which add to complexity but could alleviate a lot of traffic issues. I also havent found a way to check traffic locking, such as in Factorio you can drop a cargo wagon in a block and see what the signals do when that block is occupied. *sad signal maintainer noises*

I enjoy helping out using real world knowledge, and I try to get into signal design threads on r/Factorio when I find the time. Hopefully I've helped and reach out if you think I can help out more. High greens to ya, friend!

[SkyKing]

Thank you. You hit it on the nose.

[Zapp]

Started a reply but quickly realized I shouldn't hide it down here in an existing discussion.

Look for "Signalling 101" just posted. It's basically my comment to this discussion as well.