Urban Fever!

[kilésengati]

Given the recent bodged release of Cities: Skylines 2, I think there is a real opportunity for Urban Games to step up the game. TpF2 is already half-way a city-builder, with some folks already using it somewhat like that. Without setting expectations too high, an "Urban Fever" could be everything CSL2 wanted to be, similar to how CSL1 used the vacuum left by and lessons learned from SC2013.

SC4 x CSL1 x TpF2. Choochoo! Let's goooo!!

What do you think of a possible Urban Fever?

[General Tso]

CSL2 isn't dead yet.

I would rather have Urban games create TF3 and have it be the ultimate game in the series (so far). Than create a first generation city builder.

But if they did make a city builder. And it ended up being really good. That would still be awesome.

[larry_roberts]

General Tso, completely agree with you, I wish they would add a proper underground building mode and 'Containers') (in the vanilla game) and trade with other maps or countries (similar to Tropico) . With 'Containers' come large sea ports and rail Container yards. They could expand the game to be a City builder but they (thus far) have concentrated on being a Transport Game and I would not be disappointed if they continued in that vein.

[Tsubame ⭐]

I would be happy with basic city building mechanics like zoning RCI tools to allow players to easily mold towns fully as they wish.

Urban assets would be a nice addition indeed, though not necessarily required to be built by the player, and not necessarily to provide a urban service like they do in CS - they could be built automatically by the towns, and simulated ingame only as source of passengers or cargo, and/or provide a desirability bonus, like A-Train does.

They could also randomly generate some traffic activity, like police cars moving around the city for police stations.

I already suggested to the developers assets for urban building some years ago. I would have gladly dished out money for a well thought DLC centered around that.

Given the small size of the team and the amount of work required to implement fully functional urban services - and how would they tie in to existing game mechanics - I do not think going fully the city manager route is a feasible route, though.

Performance is much better size per size in TpF 2, and there will be no Workshop as far as I know - they want people to use the Paradox Mod Manager - so yes, CS 2 really dropped the ball.

What I really want from CS or CS 2 though is door to door service, as opposed to "truck stations". This is one logistics aspects that CS simulates much better than TpF...

[kilésengati]

Originally posted by larry_roberts:

General Tso, completely agree with you, I wish they would add a proper underground building mode and 'Containers') (in the vanilla game) and trade with other maps or countries (similar to Tropico) . With 'Containers' come large sea ports and rail Container yards. They could expand the game to be a City builder but they (thus far) have concentrated on being a Transport Game and I would not be disappointed if they continued in that vein.

Yeah, or a region mode similar to SC4's, that lets you have multiple maps interact with one another - even with multiple players.

Originally posted by Tsubame ⭐:

I would be happy with basic city building mechanics like zoning RCI tools to allow players to easily mold towns fully as they wish.

Urban assets would be a nice addition indeed, though not necessarily required to be built by the player, and not necessarily to provide a urban service like they do in CS - they could be built automatically by the towns, and simulated ingame only as source of passengers or cargo, and/or provide a desirability bonus, like A-Train does.

They could also randomly generate some traffic activity, like police cars moving around the city for police stations.

I already suggested to the developers assets for urban building some years ago. I would have gladly dished out money for a well thought DLC centered around that.

Given the small size of the team and the amount of work required to implement fully functional urban services - and how would they tie in to existing game mechanics - I do not think going fully the city manager route is a feasible route, though.

Performance is much better size per size in TpF 2, and there will be no Workshop as far as I know - they want people to use the Paradox Mod Manager - so yes, CS 2 really dropped the ball.

What I really want from CS or CS 2 though is door to door service, as opposed to "truck stations". This is one logistics aspects that CS simulates much better than TpF...

Yes, more directly zoning control and better road tools, maybe even based on the track-builder.

I agree that a city simulation doesn't have to be entirely instance-based. At least for stuff that doesn't directly affect the transit mechanics, I think background simulations represented by automata and other visual cues are more than fair. However, it shouldn't be forgone entirely, like it's the case with A-Train 9.

Speaking of A-Train 9, I really like it's intricate system with subsidiaries, taxes and the stock market. It was kinda fun of it's own sort. A-Train 9 also lets you drive trains. Not as interactive and purposeful as SC4's UDI, but it would be amazing if one could just hop on a train, bus, ship or plane and drive the route oneself.

TpF2 lacking any mechanic for the last mile is a good point, but I think ultimately a simplification to keep the game fun to play. Maybe in the world of TpF2 they already have developed teleporters, but they only work over short distances and not for people, because big transit doesn't want teleporters to cut into their profits. ;P

Steam Workshop support is a must. Not having any type of modding platform at launch didn't do CSL2 any favour. Even better than just one platform would be if the game allows players different repositories like it is already possible with the CommonAPI's integrated mod and repo manager, just more user-friendly.

[Tsubame ⭐]

Yes, I do like the subsidiary system in A-Train quite a bit.

For those that do not know, most RCI buildings can be bought or built by the player and operated for extra revenue.

There are already industries, and Railway Empire also allows the player to buy and operate them, so that would be a good place to start in TpF, and then branch off to other buildings.

[kilésengati]

Originally posted by Tsubame ⭐:

Yes, I do like the subsidiary system in A-Train quite a bit.

For those that do not know, most RCI buildings can be bought or built by the player and operated for extra revenue.

There are already industries, and Railway Empire also allows the player to buy and operate them, so that would be a good place to start in TpF, and then branch off to other buildings.

Not only for revenue, they are a great option for tax avoidance in the game, too. :D

[Aegyssus]

Highrise City ?
Anno+CS1/2

[Marc Collins]

Originally posted by Tsubame ⭐:

What I really want from CS or CS 2 though is door to door service, as opposed to "truck stations". This is one logistics aspects that CS simulates much better than TpF...

Yes, this is key. Trucks are treated like trains (depot-centric) in the current game instead of being used how they are in real life (and why they displaced so much rail cargo).

Taxis (similar to CS 2) would also be nice, and of course proper metros/subways to complete the public transit segment.

[mongolteiko]

Originally posted by General Tso:

CSL2 isn't dead yet.

I would rather have Urban games create TF3 and have it be the ultimate game in the series (so far). Than create a first generation city builder.

But if they did make a city builder. And it ended up being really good. That would still be awesome.

No not dead [improving slightly], but it [CS2] only has 5k more player base than CS1.
CS2 = 14.27k [13.2k 30 day average] compared with CS1 = 9.3k [9.9k 30 day average]
as of Saturday 16/12/2023.

But it would be good if UG could incorporate some aspects of it int TF3.

[mongolteiko]

Originally posted by larry_roberts:

General Tso, completely agree with you, I wish they would add a proper underground building mode and 'Containers') (in the vanilla game) and trade with other maps or countries (similar to Tropico) . With 'Containers' come large sea ports and rail Container yards. They could expand the game to be a City builder but they (thus far) have concentrated on being a Transport Game and I would not be disappointed if they continued in that vein.

Yes like that idea with trading with outside the map. This could enhance the transport side with larger freight hubs as you described [including air].

Like one of the mods that has mail/waste should be incorporated and maybe power/heating/water/sewage to/from the cities etc.

[kilésengati]

Originally posted by mongolteiko:

Originally posted by larry_roberts:

General Tso, completely agree with you, I wish they would add a proper underground building mode and 'Containers') (in the vanilla game) and trade with other maps or countries (similar to Tropico) . With 'Containers' come large sea ports and rail Container yards. They could expand the game to be a City builder but they (thus far) have concentrated on being a Transport Game and I would not be disappointed if they continued in that vein.

Yes like that idea with trading with outside the map. This could enhance the transport side with larger freight hubs as you described [including air].

Like one of the mods that has mail/waste should be incorporated and maybe power/heating/water/sewage to/from the cities etc.

That's what A-Train 9 already does, and it works pretty well. You can also drive the trains there. But sometimes I also wish it was a real city-builder. Apart from the empty cities, it looks great.

[James Blonde]

Whilst there are loads of similarities and I kind of play both (all 3 if I include CS1) games in the same sort of way, to be honest, I like that they're different games - mostly in geographical scale than anything. But also I think one game trying to do everything would be too much - both in terms of gameplay as well as simulation.

I do often try to simulate large multi-district cities (including subways / metros) on large maps in TF2 and I do agree that some functionality and content from CS would fit in well here. I actually prefer the realism of TF2 over CS in this respect.

I wish I had better traffic and road tools and I really wish there was a TM:PE equivalent here! - roads are probably my biggest bugbear, to a point where I stop connecting towns with roads where at all possible. This is a transport game, more so than CS, and it's the one aspect of the transport game you have least control over. But then I wish CS did trains and goods better - you had more control over cargo!

Zoning - sure, I'd like a bit more control there, but I can accept the town was there before I was, so I have to work with what I've got, and I can control enough aspects to compensate!

Trading could be interesting, but to be fair, you've already got that sort of behaviour completely within your control - it's town to town trading or one end of a map to the other. So I don't see what benefit you'd get from off-map trading?

[Tsubame ⭐]

Off the map exchanges would be a nice addition, if anything, to avoid completely empty edges at the ends of the map, not to mention that they could further add to the stuff transported in the map, and more interesting network lines and connections.

This is already possible to a degree with stations built in places you do not frequent too much, and magnets/Freestyle Industry, but would be much easier and neater if a CS2 solution was adopted instead, especially if the player is able to customize these connections through Sandbox.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2859046892

Direct zoning control is already possible to a degree, via mods like Advanced Town Builder, and Instant Town Developer, in conjunction with the No Town Development mod, though again, direct control over them would make this much easier, especially if the player wants full control over how cities develop rather than leaving everything to AI and game mechanics.

Not everyone wants to see cities more or less the same size all with 1k+ across the map, especially in a playthrough based off in a real life location - i.e. bustling Tokyo vs. sleepy Takayama.