How is it compared to TF1 and TTD?

[Usikava]

I've bought TF1 mainly as "this age" alternative to TTD and wasn't totally happy about signals, crossroads, some AI mechanics etc. And mods was only present as a 3D workshop in which you couldn't change any deep settings or mechanics.
Did something of the above changed with TF2 or it's just number in the title that is really changed? Keep in mind I want TTD alternative in the first place.

[Big Ron]

If you are looking for the management-part of TTD, you won´t be happy with TF2. The management and cargo system isn´t that complex. I would say, it´s even simplier than before and not even that feature-rich than TF1. I can´t even set the space of one kind of wagon to pick up two different ressources on one route. The train will ignore the second ressource and fully loads the first one and no space left for the second one.

[Metacritical]

the cargo system has been streamlined to make it harder to exploit and so make it more tricky to make money. previously you could use the same cargo consists to take animals to a food factory and then use the same consts to take food to a city, doubling profits and making it very easy to make vast fortune. now you have to use different trains. also in TpF1 you could send any cargo to any city, whereas in TpF2 they have restricted this so a city now demands two specific cargo types which again makes it harder to make vast fortunes early on, some, incorrectly say this makes the game simplified.
the game is very different to TTD, watch some YouTube videos and decide for yourself

[Starbucaneer]

Watch youtube vidoes by Skye Storme and Colonel Failure that will give you the best impressions of the game so you can see for yourself.

[neldot]

It compares badly. They made the game economy noob proof, dumbing down all the complexity (and the fun). You can now deliver only two goods per town and you have "black-hole" industries that accept everything that you throw at them even if the production chain is not complete.
Now all the challenge of setting up a good economy is gone. You just build lines, deliver anything you want, and get the cash, totally boring.

[Autocoach]

To the OP , if (for your reasons) you did not like TpF1 you are most unlikely to think this is closer to oTTD etc .

[Gregorovitch]

Originally posted by neldot:

and you have "black-hole" industries that accept everything that you throw at them even if the production chain is not complete.
Now all the challenge of setting up a good economy is gone. You just build lines, deliver anything you want, and get the cash, totally boring.

This does not appear to be true.

In TF1 factory production was ultra-sensitive to bottlenecks in the end-to-end supply chain. Any break in the flow would cause chain reaction and every factory would shut down.

In TF2 factories will produce at level 1 rates (100 usually) whatever the situation, and accept supplies up to the amount required to sustain level 1 production.

But they won't level up beyond first level unless their goods are being delivered and consumed and if there is a break in the supply chain they will reduce production back to the level 1 rates.

So the difference in TF2 is:

1. Factories will start to produce at level 1 rates immediately they are connected at all
2. Factories will not shut down completely if supply chains are broken, they will instead reduce to level 1 rates.

Which means that in TF2 it is easier to get a complex chain such as machines up and running to begin with but similar to TF1 to get them to ramp up and max production. They are slightly more forgiving than in TF1 in terms of shutting down in response to problems at a slower rate and not shutting down entirely, but slightly less forgiving in that raw resource producers like mines and forests now only produce up to 400 units max, therefore supplying the big factories is more complex.

[phobos2077]

To me coming from OTTD to TF2:

PROs:
- Awesome style and graphics
- Awesome passenger agent system, naturally solves the most annoying thing in OTTD cargodist where passengers are too dumb to just walk between stations on foot even if they are 2 blocks away, you have to manually connect every station
- Finally some campaigns to play that gradually introduce you to the game mechanics and different eras

CONs:
- No vehicle breakdowns, no maintenance & auto-renew mechanics. The game feels a bit more "childish" and shallow in terms of vehicle management because of this.
- UI of an open-source game based on ancient 1994 game manages to be more usable than this game from 2019. A lot of usability issues mentioned countless times on this forum.

Overall I don't regret my purchase as I wasn't expecting a second coming of Jesus in gaming as some others do. The game worth it's price. Also I've looked at the update log of the previous game and it reassured me that we can expect a better game with some free updates in a year or two.

[Sunshine]

it's years ago that i played Openttd. The last time i remember it was very easy too make tons of money even nowadays as in TPF2. Do they have changed something on the economic model?

I see back some things that were also in the original version of transport tycoon and that concept has been copied by all of the later transport simulation games. That is the placement of industries everywhere on the map.

[phobos2077]

Originally posted by gorter127:

it's years ago that i played Openttd. The last time i remember it was very easy too make tons of money even nowadays as in TPF2. Do they have changed something on the economic model?

There's no one economic model in this game, there's tons of options and different mods. Mostly the difficulty depends on which industry NewGRF you play with. While vanilla industries are much simpler, some other sets can be much more engaging to play with. For example with FIRS the primary industries can be supplied with "supplies" and increase their production. And you get more of these "supplies" at the very end of the industry chain. So when you link the end of the chain to the beginning, your whole chain becomes much "thicker" and profitable. It's something similar to TF2 industry "level-up" mechanics but deeper and a bit interesting.

I wish there will be mods with similar level of complexity as those industry sets. It's sad this game is plagued by people who ignore the tycoon part of the game and focus on building their virtual model train set instead :(

[MishaTX]

I honestly don't think that the "don't have to produce a full chain in order to make money" mechanic in TF2 is a bad idea at all. But it does need some additional balancing for sure, since it's way too easy as it is now.

Now, why do I like it?0

For one thing, it's more realistic. Industries aren't just hibernating entities that suddenly spring to life when the player comes by to transport their goods. If they're there, which they are in the game or you'd have to build them yourself (maybe not a bad idea for the future, actually?), then they're presumably making money or we'd have shut down industries littering the map.

What you, the player, do, is jump in and make them even more profitable, increasing their production in the process. Guess what, that's already implemented. Sure, you can ship refined oil to a plastic factory without also completing a steel network first as well as a transport line from the goods factory. But you can't sell infinite amounts of the stuff to them as they'll only take enough to satisfy their current (invisible) inherent demand.

For another, I absolutely do NOT miss having to save up a gazillion bucks to design a full three-tiered supply/production/delivery network without even knowing if it would work and then have to cross my fingers and pray that the incomprehensibly daft turn on/off system in TF1 wouldn't suddenly shut down one of the links in my chain, thereby shutting down the entire bloody network and bankrupting me because reasons?

I rather like the current iteration better: "Say, those guys out there are making planks? I guess I could ship some lumber to them", followed by "hmm... I guess I could make even more money if I could ship them more lumber, but they don't have any way to get them to somebody who needs a lot of them. Say, if I were to link them up with that tool factory down there?" And so on.

But it definitely needs balancing, the whole game does as it's way too easy to make a fortune without a worry in the world. I suspect that will be coming.

Finally, and nobody ever mentions this: I do not, NOT EVER want to go back to the arbitrary and utterly unpredictable shutdowns of entire industry chains because one of your trains got stuck waiting for the BFE Express at a signal for 20 seconds more than the game rules allow. TF2 has this nailed, and I love it. Production is not an on/off switch run by an idiot with a stop watch!

So... balancing, yes, but going back to the TF1 ways? I'd rather scoop my own eyeballs out with a rusty spoon!

[Big Ron]

If it goes for the "factories work without your input already. You input just increases their output". Then it would be great to make it visually recognizable. At the moment you create the map, everything is dead until you come into play. I mean, factories actually just start "animating" with your input. There´s no other delivery chain live before the player starts his work.

So, if this argumentation should work, then it would be great to actually animate other individuals in the economy chain to give it a sense.

Another idea would have been that in early years there are just basic industries and a fewer count and over time, new industries start to appear on the map in a dynamic process of your transportation development.

[Bautz]

Originally posted by neldot:

It compares badly. They made the game economy noob proof, dumbing down all the complexity (and the fun). You can now deliver only two goods per town and you have "black-hole" industries that accept everything that you throw at them even if the production chain is not complete.
Now all the challenge of setting up a good economy is gone. You just build lines, deliver anything you want, and get the cash, totally boring.

They did not make it "noob proof", what they did was give you some information what the systems does internally so you don't have to rely on experience and excel.
Basically what every corporate BI system does nowadays, replace guesswork with facts.

[Sunshine]

Originally posted by phobos2077:

Originally posted by gorter127:

it's years ago that i played Openttd. The last time i remember it was very easy too make tons of money even nowadays as in TPF2. Do they have changed something on the economic model?

There's no one economic model in this game, there's tons of options and different mods. Mostly the difficulty depends on which industry NewGRF you play with. While vanilla industries are much simpler, some other sets can be much more engaging to play with. For example with FIRS the primary industries can be supplied with "supplies" and increase their production. And you get more of these "supplies" at the very end of the industry chain. So when you link the end of the chain to the beginning, your whole chain becomes much "thicker" and profitable. It's something similar to TF2 industry "level-up" mechanics but deeper and a bit interesting.

I wish there will be mods with similar level of complexity as those industry sets. It's sad this game is plagued by people who ignore the tycoon part of the game and focus on building their virtual model train set instead :(

Maybe i can get it an try over a copple of weeks. At this moment i enjoy TPF2 too much. I'am not a graphic enthousiast. Al the features as vissible passengers in the cars are not that important enouch for me. But after playing Transport Fever i have not the intention too play the 1990's graphics from opentdd

I hope that there will be soon good mods for TPF2 with many possibleieties. TPF2 is yet a few days out and there is not so many in the workshop right now. I hope that modders will given more options than in TPF1. For example cities skylines another of my favorite titles gives modders almost unlimeted possibleities. Thats the power of cities skylines. When you see the first vanilla version of Cities skylines there are also many things that are annoying. That was in my opinion the largest disadvantange of TPF1. The modding possibleities were too limited.

[phobos2077]

I don't know what you mean by "so many in the workshop", I only see a few cheat-mods like 4X industry production, some patriotic mods, and some useless (for me) mods for turning the game more into a virtual model set w/o any regard to gameplay. I've yet to see any actual rebalancing, gameplay improvements or at least some interesting scenarios. Seeing that all game campaigns are actually implemented as mods with game scripts driving everything, there should be a lot of area for creativity.

[Autocoach]

With regard to scenarios , don't forget that TpF1 had the possibility to create scenarios but because they are hard to do and many people would play vanilla only there were only ever 2.