Creating Efficiency

[Detective Dan]

So. I'm getting into TF2 a little bit more these days and i seem to have gotten the basics down of getting products where they need to go. However I'd like to create some efficiency in my routes as multiple resources are being gathered and shuffled around at various intermodal hubs

So is there an easier way to track where things are going versus just tracking the resources. I've got planes delivering rocks to places where i don't want it to deliver rocks. I know how to set up a vehicle to pick up a given resource/product but i'd like to know an easy way to track what it's picking up. I've named my lines with to notate what it's carrying where and why but i'm also not trying to break my supply lines in the process of organzing them

I can upload my save upon request

[TransportTycoon_Joker]

What do you mean with track? You can define per stop what the line should pickup or drop there. So you can precisely control what should go where with what line

[Detective Dan]

Originally posted by TransportTycoon_Joker:

What do you mean with track? You can define per stop what the line should pickup or drop there. So you can precisely control what should go where with what line

i guess in general with any mode, truck rail or plane. I know i can define what they pick up, i was just curious if there was an easier way like a mod or protip or something to track what it's picking up rather than sitting there and watching planes land and take off or trains arrive and depart seeing what they pick up and don't pick up. it's very time consuming you see.

I guess the main issue right now is i have 2-3 intermodal centers (air, rail and truck) that are moving things for whatever reason. For example, it seems like rocks that should be going from A-B-C are going to A-B-A-B-C or something weird.

Am i doomed to just having to stare at my lines?

[SlimNasty™]

You can click on an individual industry and see who they are supplying.

Also there are useful menu's both top left and bottom right...

[Vimpster]

I would like to look at your map. I suspect I know what the issue is you are having but I'ed like to see it and be sure. But here is the principle to apply to avoid the issue you describe (if issue is what I suspect); Whenever a line picks up from the same location multiple times in its order list, you as the player will not be able to control at what point it loads the product at that stop. What will often happen in this scenario is that the product will get picked up at the first instance of the stop order even if the product is not meant to be dropped off till after the second instance of that same pick up stop location.

[Detective Dan]

Originally posted by Vimpster:

I would like to look at your map. I suspect I know what the issue is you are having but I'ed like to see it and be sure. But here is the principle to apply to avoid the issue you describe (if issue is what I suspect); Whenever a line picks up from the same location multiple times in its order list, you as the player will not be able to control at what point it loads the product at that stop. What will often happen in this scenario is that the product will get picked up at the first instance of the stop order even if the product is not meant to be dropped off till after the second instance of that same pick up stop location.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2419236271 Here ya go my man. no extra addons or mods or anything, totally vanilla. just a money hack. Theres no goal to this playthrough, just have fun making networks (so feel free to make a copy and do as you will)

- You should be able to tell i'm trying to centralize as much as possible and keep emissions away from the cities.
- My problem specifically lies in the air networks at Fort Worth, Gainesville and Elk Grove. Need to make these lines more efficient, but i'm not sure where to start

[Vimpster]

Interesting. So it turns out I saw no examples of the issue I was imagining taking place. So that is good. But you are correct in thinking that you have an inefficient network. I saw many inefficiencies. For the most part they could all be fixed by simply making better use of the filtering feature.

However, rather than using the filtering to correct for problems after the fact, I would recommend preemptively setting filters whenever you have multiple networks interconnecting with each other. I would recommend using the filter option to limit the line to the very specific items you intend for that line to transport. In case you were unaware you can click on the "load" and "unload" words at the top of the filter menu to deselect or select everything in the column at once, which I would suggest doing to clear all items from being transported, and then just check the few select items you actually intend for the line to transport.

The aircraft lines are indeed a large part of the inefficiencies in your network. They are interconnecting so many unrelated networks and have very little filtering applied to them. So unsurprisingly it is allowing stuff to go all sorts of places that you likely never intended. You seem to be trying to use planes as a hub system and really they are not well suited to that at all because of the very limited platform capacity at airports. So not only are aircraft not well suited for very high volumes of cargo, but also not well suited to transporting a diverse range of different cargo types. It is far better to use aircraft in a more specialised capacity where they are only expected to transport a maximum of one cargo type in any given direction.

I can't be sure if it was intentional or not, but you also have examples of multiple factories supplying the same destinations. This is not efficient at all. Only in the case where the demand exceeds the capacity of the source should you ever be connecting another source. So one example you have is that you have 3 goods factories supplying goods to Irvine. Though due to lack of materials one of the 3 goods factories (the one that is seemingly intended to supply goods to another town entirely) has shut down and stopped supplying Irvine. Irvine only has a demand of around 70 for goods. A single factory can produce as much as 400. So not until Irvine has a demand greater than 400 would it be advisable to allow a secondary source of goods to be connected.

Another tip I have for you related to efficiency, is to make sure your lines do not needlessly share platforms. Especially if more than one line is needing to load materials/people from that location. I think it was in the Fort Worth corner where you have 3 truck lines all sharing the same platform in a truck station even though there is a second platform there (and you could add a 3rd if you wanted). Granted you do not have a lot of trucks involved in those 3 lines, and 2 of the lines are only unloading, so it isn't all that bad. Just something to keep in mind to improve efficiency.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2419290923

Here is a shot showing examples of stuff going places you probably didn't intend. All can be fixed by using the filter system.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2419290969
You have steel going from the steel plant to the airport via the orange and blue truck lines (can't be sure if that is intentional or not). The goods factory which appears to be intended just to supply Worcester was, before running out of materials and shutting down, supplying goods to Irvine via the airport even though Irvine is also being supplied with goods from 2 other factories. Coal and iron ore, which is evidently meant to just take the green train line over to the steel mill is actually also going to the blue truck line, and then the orange truck line in order to reach that same steel mill. This likely started happening because the train was not keeping up with the volume. You also have a secondary source of steel being flown in via the airport to supply steel to the goods factory.

[Detective Dan]

Originally posted by Vimpster:

Interesting. So it turns out I saw no examples of the issue I was imagining taking place. So that is good. But you are correct in thinking that you have an inefficient network. I saw many inefficiencies. For the most part they could all be fixed by simply making better use of the filtering feature.

However, rather than using the filtering to correct for problems after the fact, I would recommend preemptively setting filters whenever you have multiple networks interconnecting with each other. I would recommend using the filter option to limit the line to the very specific items you intend for that line to transport. In case you were unaware you can click on the "load" and "unload" words at the top of the filter menu to deselect or select everything in the column at once, which I would suggest doing to clear all items from being transported, and then just check the few select items you actually intend for the line to transport.

The aircraft lines are indeed a large part of the inefficiencies in your network. They are interconnecting so many unrelated networks and have very little filtering applied to them. So unsurprisingly it is allowing stuff to go all sorts of places that you likely never intended. You seem to be trying to use planes as a hub system and really they are not well suited to that at all because of the very limited platform capacity at airports. So not only are aircraft not well suited for very high volumes of cargo, but also not well suited to transporting a diverse range of different cargo types. It is far better to use aircraft in a more specialised capacity where they are only expected to transport a maximum of one cargo type in any given direction.

I can't be sure if it was intentional or not, but you also have examples of multiple factories supplying the same destinations. This is not efficient at all. Only in the case where the demand exceeds the capacity of the source should you ever be connecting another source. So one example you have is that you have 3 goods factories supplying goods to Irvine. Though due to lack of materials one of the 3 goods factories (the one that is seemingly intended to supply goods to another town entirely) has shut down and stopped supplying Irvine. Irvine only has a demand of around 70 for goods. A single factory can produce as much as 400. So not until Irvine has a demand greater than 400 would it be advisable to allow a secondary source of goods to be connected.

Another tip I have for you related to efficiency, is to make sure your lines do not needlessly share platforms. Especially if more than one line is needing to load materials/people from that location. I think it was in the Fort Worth corner where you have 3 truck lines all sharing the same platform in a truck station even though there is a second platform there (and you could add a 3rd if you wanted). Granted you do not have a lot of trucks involved in those 3 lines, and 2 of the lines are only unloading, so it isn't all that bad. Just something to keep in mind to improve efficiency.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2419290923

Here is a shot showing examples of stuff going places you probably didn't intend. All can be fixed by using the filter system.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2419290969
You have steel going from the steel plant to the airport via the orange and blue truck lines (can't be sure if that is intentional or not). The goods factory which appears to be intended just to supply Worcester was, before running out of materials and shutting down, supplying goods to Irvine via the airport even though Irvine is also being supplied with goods from 2 other factories. Coal and iron ore, which is evidently meant to just take the green train line over to the steel mill is actually also going to the blue truck line, and then the orange truck line in order to reach that same steel mill. This likely started happening because the train was not keeping up with the volume. You also have a secondary source of steel being flown in via the airport to supply steel to the goods factory.

So some of it is intentional yes. My problem since you've explained whats going on, as i see it, now becomes i've also got steel moving places they shouldn't. All the air lines are (supposed to) ONLY transport plastics (EG-FW Chem Xfer Pln, EG-GAI Chem Xfer Pln). I decided to have the Elk Grove Plastics plant as the sole supplier of plastics for the region. This is mainly due to what i considered poor placement of the necessary factories to produce consumer goods to the required towns. I've played around in the map a bit and i agree these lines are transporting steel unnecessarily, but maybe set up with a dedicated line? Any steel transported by air seems to be all supplemental (which is not intentional)

On the second screenshot: Raw Coal and Iron are being fed to the train station which goes to the steel plant (these are rock gondolas so they can't transport steel anyway) back to the airport side. The steel is then transported by truck to the goods factory near Worcester. The Plastics plant at Elk Grove produces enough (thank god for the 4 oil wells supplying Charlotte Refinery) product it's just quicker (and probably ultimately cheaper) to transport plastics by air to fort worth

Thanks for your feedback, i think i know where to start.

[sergetechone]

@Mercedes Benz Thank you for sharing your map / play in the workshop.

First : Let take at the financials and see the bigger money losing routes so I can start to give pink slip .. lay off ... . I mean clean up some of the routes. The main pax lines - big looser. I use just 3 Metroliner per line. so I can have most of the trains full. And a lots of cities that did not have a city transit line to connect the cities train station. That it and place signals on that rail line. Having no signals is a major issues. And those lines start making some money . The air lines, I did not touch them ... only delete one plane on each line. So the Plastic Air line did not work well, so I redesign the area, so the air line can carry plastic - steel so to be full both ways. the rate is about 200 to 300 which is OK. I rework the Worcester area and the Steel Mill is finally max out.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2420145905

A lots more need to be done.

[Detective Dan]

Originally posted by sergetechone:

@Mercedes Benz Thank you for sharing your map / play in the workshop.

First : Let take at the financials and see the bigger money losing routes so I can start to give pink slip .. lay off ... . I mean clean up some of the routes. The main pax lines - big looser. I use just 3 Metroliner per line. so I can have most of the trains full. And a lots of cities that did not have a city transit line to connect the cities train station. That it and place signals on that rail line. Having no signals is a major issues. And those lines start making some money . The air lines, I did not touch them ... only delete one plane on each line. So the Plastic Air line did not work well, so I redesign the area, so the air line can carry plastic - steel so to be full both ways. the rate is about 200 to 300 which is OK. I rework the Worcester area and the Steel Mill is finally max out.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2420145905

A lots more need to be done.

ngl that makes WAYYYYY more sense for the worcester steer mill.

And yes, i agree, i went back after uploading (created a separate save) and connected the towns way off from the main pax line via shuttle bus.

Can you elaborate on the use of the train signals? I mean i get when you want to run say two trains on a single line that doesn't loop on either end you'd use it, but why would i use them on a line that just goes in a circle? With 3 trains per line (which i believe i changed after uploading), wouldn't that just provide enough time between trains at a single station to provide a profit?

Also yeah, i found it was more cost effective to have the air routes transport both steel and plastic.

[sergetechone]

@Mercedes Benz

When I build a train line, and the possibility of multiple trains that will be on it, I always place signals. So that loop around the map is the "Main Line". The map before I change the pax lines .... was having 6 long trains per lines and running at a big loses. So I replace then with 3 trains instead. So .... the line capacity was 600 but with the change - about 300, the line usage is now using close between 150 - 250. A way better. The frequency is about 10 min, a bit bad, but under the situation that was before, it is way better. When a train is at a station, it stop, and load and go. If a train occupy the space in front, the train will stay at the station, on hold - not loading - until the line is clear.

The way I did with Worcester area, I use the game .... Dont need to complete the chain. Meaning .... The iron / coal will work alone and can have a rate of 400. Because of the steel demand .... the iron / coal need is 800, so that is why 2 coal and 2 iron are at 400 capacity, providing 800 to the steel mill, as long the demand for steel is 400. The steel was going to the Good Factory near Worcester... 100... the air line was in contact with 300. But Worcester only need 60 goods, that 40 short, so it is a partial incomplete line - coal - iron - steel - crude - oil - plastic - good.

In that map, you have ... two steel mill in an interesting location, One end to the other end. And have coal / iron near both steel mill. So .... a coal / iron from Worcester to the Steel Mill at the other end. Run empty a little, pickup coal / iron going to the Worcester Steel Mill. So you have a few 450 m long trains that carry coal / iron both way full with a basic 400 rate.