Campaigns - tutorial vs. challenge vs. how to put-off new players

[62bMoose]

TLDR: Devs should have put more effort into the track work for the campaigns.

I've decided to replay the campaigns. As has been previously discussed in this forum, the purpose of the campaigns is to teach newcomers the game mechanics, so there is a vast amount of cash available to ensure they can afford to make mistakes.

I've got to mission 9, "Swiss Maid". Having already played the game for many hours, it's not at all challenging, but the scenery is good. What I do find off-putting is the sheer crappiness of the track work - it's laid on the surface with no refinement of grades, and many of the junctions have severely divergent grades resulting in the switches being filled with ballast. In cab view, the trains lurch and jump over the defective track like rollercoasters.

The track work in the campaigns is incompetent and ugly. Any newcomer looking for a "realistic" railway simulation (which IMHO TpF2 can do exceedingly well for a generated world) is going to take one look at this, suspect it's the best the game can do and immediately head-back to Trainz or Train Simulator.

So (at last) here is my point: The campaign maps seem to have been slapped together with a "F*** it, that'll do!" attitude, when they could have been used to demonstrate what can be achieved with some time and effort. I understand the absence of challenge, but ugly track work is unforgivable.

[genemead]

Don't forget only you are saying the trackwork is "ugly". Most of us don't know better.
Besides, if it bothers you that much, you've got the money, redo it.

[62bMoose]

All the track is locked in mission 9 - you cannot bulldoze or build.

Is this really a good example to set impressionable young railroaders?
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2568486495

[mongolteiko]

Totally agree with you [OP]. This is my favourite campaign mission, and play it often. But the track layout is really really bad in areas and lazy.

[genemead]

And how are "impressionable young railroaders" suppose to know the difference between "good" and "bad" track design? Did YOU at first? When did you realize (in your opinion) the campaigns had "bad" design? And doesn't function determine form? Tracks may be different depending on if they had cost, speed, etc. in mind.

[mongolteiko]

Originally posted by genemead:

And how are "impressionable young railroaders" suppose to know the difference between "good" and "bad" track design? Did YOU at first? When did you realize (in your opinion) the campaigns had "bad" design? And doesn't function determine form? Tracks may be different depending on if they had cost, speed, etc. in mind.

Hey know-all know NOTHING. I was a train driver SO YES I do know what it looks like!

[genemead]

The other 98% of us weren't train drivers.
Sorry, us beginners don't know any better. We will learn good track design with playing time and experience. In the meantime we don't know what "good" or "bad" track design is yet- we wouldn't know it if we saw it. We just want to learn how to play.

[canophone]

Originally posted by mongolteiko:

Originally posted by genemead:

And how are "impressionable young railroaders" suppose to know the difference between "good" and "bad" track design? Did YOU at first? When did you realize (in your opinion) the campaigns had "bad" design? And doesn't function determine form? Tracks may be different depending on if they had cost, speed, etc. in mind.

Hey know-all know NOTHING. I was a train driver SO YES I do know what it looks like!

The campaigns aren't meant to be the same as IRL (IRL, it also varies by country). They are meant to show immersion in game aspects.

[62bMoose]

Originally posted by genemead:

The other 98% of us weren't train drivers.
Sorry, us beginners don't know any better. We will learn good track design with playing time and experience. In the meantime we don't know what "good" or "bad" track design is yet- we wouldn't know it if we saw it. We just want to learn how to play.

ok ok ok this was intended to be a light-hearted post to query why the devs appear to have created campaign maps that do not show-off the realism than can be achieved with their game. I'm sorry I failed to convey the humour intended with my reference to "impressionable young railroaders".

My knowledge of "good" track derives from having read several histories and treatises on the development and design of railway track - I play Transport Fever because it facilitates the creation of complex layouts in passably realistic scenery, and with the input of many skilled moddders, allows me to run passably realistic trains over my passably realistic railway junctions. It requires less work than creating models in a fully-fledged simulator. Other people play Transport Fever because it's just a game, and they just like playing games.

If you enjoy playing the game then that is good. I have not seen your work, and I'm not marking it, so the views I have expressed about other people's work not setting a good example should be irrelevant to your continuing enjoyment.

[mongolteiko]

Originally posted by canophone:

Originally posted by mongolteiko:

Hey know-all know NOTHING. I was a train driver SO YES I do know what it looks like!

The campaigns aren't meant to be the same as IRL (IRL, it also varies by country). They are meant to show immersion in game aspects.

I am on about how the track is laid. In two parts [maybe more], the double track is uneven and looks an eyesore. Even the signal placements are bad in some areas. It looks like it was just rushed and thrown down without care.

If you want to 'show immersion', one would show how it should be done correctly not slap dash.

[canophone]

Immersion much being that it's a line management game simulation, and much less about the track visualization. It's been the same here from conception, in the first release. I'd love to see segmenting tracks, but that doesn't mean it's a priority for the devs.

[mongolteiko]

You opinion matey. I have mine. End of!

Originally posted by canophone:

Immersion much being that it's a line management game simulation, and much less about the track visualization. It's been the same here from conception, in the first release. I'd love to see segmenting tracks, but that doesn't mean it's a priority for the devs.

You opinion matey. I have mine. End of!