Map Generator ...Grrrrrr!

[jon157uk]

Just my opinion but I think the map generator is pathetic, I say this because it seems obvious to me that it intentionally sets up industries so that they're thousands of miles apart, which early in the game makes it pretty impossible to get what you need because you haven't got enough money to set up routes to go and fetch the product(s). Each town always seems to have one (and many times both) of it's 'needs' right over the other side of the map from where it's situated, then it gets very boring very quickly, because all you can do until you earn enough money is sit there watching the same thing being delivered time and time again... Now I know it's only a game and I get that, but for instance, one map I generated earlier had 4 grain farms all pretty much together in one corner of the map, but guess what ? the only places that needed it were right over on the opposite corner and no possibly way of being able to build even a truck route to connect them. Would it not be a better idea if all the towns accepted all the goods instead of just two random ones ? They could maybe have a preference for some more than others and you could concentrate on those at a later date but at least you'd be getting some income from the other products until you had enough money to start trying to fetch anything else.

[HerrBaron]

+1, truly.

[lozacenz]

My experience is quite the contrary. I've yet to have a map that hasn't got at the minimum a farm-food factory or stone-conmat set up almost on top of the town that wants the output. Sometimes there are, instead, two towns fairly close together with the raw materials and demand at one and the manufactury at the other... frequently without a direct road connection between them, making it even better as you can run passengers on the same line as well.

Sometimes a couple of each.

And I always have industries set to minimum because otherwise they often crowd the map so much that it's not actually possible to run a ground level track which lets trains go faster than 80kph because it has to keep wiggling around them! (this depends on the specific map generation setup, somewhat, but the higher levels of industry do this regardless)

That said, I also set the number of cities to maximum because otherwise you end up with only four or so of them (on the more reasonably sized maps), often all in a fairly straight line, which is just Boring.

Of course, as the game progresses you can manage greater distances, which bring in more revenue (and profit, if you do it right), and the trains get both faster and more expensive to run so the short routes become less viable, so there Are also a number of production chains that have you carrying things from one side of the map to the other as well, if only because things that make sense for a railway with multiple trains in 1850 can sometimes barely be far enough apart to justify running trucks between them by 2050.

[Bozwai]

The map generator can use an update. Factories shouldn't be on a lone island somewhere but near towns to make it look more realistic. Logging camps close to forests, mines near mountains, etc.. Or let the player build factories.

Always had a few short supply lines available to start on. Long distance transport is something to look forward to in the long run.

[Gorby]

Originally posted by Bozwai:

The map generator can use an update. Factories shouldn't be on a lone island somewhere but near towns to make it look more realistic. Logging camps close to forests, mines near mountains, etc.. Or let the player build factories.

I use the map editor to do that exactly - quarries, iron and coal mines all get placed on large hills, farms get placed on the flattest area as far from towns as possible, forests get a bunch of trees placed around them, etc. Also you can build factories/industries if you enable the industry button, and you can bulldoze them if you enable sandbox or debug mode..

[Havan_IronOak]

Originally posted by Bozwai:

The map generator can use an update. Factories shouldn't be on a lone island somewhere but near towns to make it look more realistic. Logging camps close to forests, mines near mountains, etc.. Or let the player build factories.

Always had a few short supply lines available to start on. Long distance transport is something to look forward to in the long run.

I agree that the map generator COULD be better.

Since this is a transport game industries too near each other are a recipe for disaster. Personally I'd like the forests to generated based on certain altitudes. The same with farms in "bottom land" areas. Mines and quarries should have a higher likelihood to spawn near mountains.

As to processing industries... sawmills, steel-mills, etc should generally be near rivers (if there are any) Goods plants and Tools factories make the most sense nearer to towns.

I've also noticed that the base heightmap generation is a bit off as we tend to get maps with a plethora of little divots. Not sure what causes that but I've taken a smoothing tool to several maps that I've seen others post in the workshop.

[juliejayne]

I tend not to play the game generated maps. But if there is no industry chain nearby... passengers. Connect a couple of towns and build from there?

[canophone]

Originally posted by Bozwai:

The map generator can use an update. Factories shouldn't be on a lone island somewhere but near towns to make it look more realistic. Logging camps close to forests, mines near mountains, etc.. Or let the player build factories.

Always had a few short supply lines available to start on. Long distance transport is something to look forward to in the long run.

Interestingly I made a Temperature Plus map that did just that... using the map generator.

[canophone]

Originally posted by lozacenz:

My experience is quite the contrary. I've yet to have a map that hasn't got at the minimum a farm-food factory or stone-conmat set up almost on top of the town that wants the output. Sometimes there are, instead, two towns fairly close together with the raw materials and demand at one and the manufactury at the other... frequently without a direct road connection between them, making it even better as you can run passengers on the same line as well.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2038615610

Also 0 towns,

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2038038089

PS:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2038615670

[lozacenz]

Originally posted by canophone:

Originally posted by lozacenz:

My experience is quite the contrary. I've yet to have a map that hasn't got at the minimum a farm-food factory or stone-conmat set up almost on top of the town that wants the output. Sometimes there are, instead, two towns fairly close together with the raw materials and demand at one and the manufactury at the other... frequently without a direct road connection between them, making it even better as you can run passengers on the same line as well.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2038615610

Also 0 towns,

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2038038089

PS:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2038615670

I'm... not sure what your point is?
Beyond using a non-standard generator to produce awful maps?

I was, based on the complete lack of mention of anything to the contrary, working from the assumption that we were talking about the default map generators.
Obviously you can intentionally break it if you use mods.

[canophone]

Originally posted by lozacenz:

Originally posted by canophone:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2038615610

Also 0 towns,

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2038038089

PS:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2038615670

I'm... not sure what your point is?
Beyond using a non-standard generator to produce awful maps?

I was, based on the complete lack of mention of anything to the contrary, working from the assumption that we were talking about the default map generators.
Obviously you can intentionally break it if you use mods.

Those aren't intentionally breaking anything... also those aren't awful maps. I actually find the map excellent, but the map generator doesn't always put every industry (there are indeed other cases where I've seen that they haven't all came into existence).

[luftfisch]

I did never experience bigger problems with default map generators yet. Industries are usually grouped in a way that I could always find a starting point where supply and demand were close enough together. I usually play large maps with 15-20 towns and 70-100 industries.

But when you decide to generate hilly maps, it may happen that a factory is very close but on the wrong side of the canyon. It's part of the game to deal with this, wait until you can afford a bridge, a tunnel or a connection by air transport. Keep in mind that you get paid for the aerial distance from each loading to unloading point. If there is no direct way, better reload your goods and build tracks in forms of V or Z rather than U or S.

If you started a game, that's really unplayable, just add the sandbox mode (in the mod list when loading a game) and change the demand of a city or place a new factory where it's accessible.

[canophone]

Originally posted by luftfisch:

I did never experience bigger problems with default map generators yet. Industries are usually grouped in a way that I could always find a starting point where supply and demand were close enough together. I usually play large maps with 15-20 towns and 70-100 industries.

But when you decide to generate hilly maps, it may happen that a factory is very close but on the wrong side of the canyon. It's part of the game to deal with this, wait until you can afford a bridge, a tunnel or a connection by air transport. Keep in mind that you get paid for the aerial distance from each loading to unloading point. If there is no direct way, better reload your goods and build tracks in forms of V or Z rather than U or S.

If you started a game, that's really unplayable, just add the sandbox mode (in the mod list when loading a game) and change the demand of a city or place a new factory where it's accessible.

Almost $10B to draw a single train track from that construction plant to the nearest food processing plant! So of course I took the airport approach closer to the midpoint of the two cities.

[RaffomatikoHD]

Originally posted by Bozwai:

The map generator can use an update. Factories shouldn't be on a lone island somewhere but near towns to make it look more realistic. Logging camps close to forests, mines near mountains, etc.. Or let the player build factories.

Always had a few short supply lines available to start on. Long distance transport is something to look forward to in the long run.

That´s totally right!!!