Two resources per city is too easy

[designrama]

After putting in 50+ hours in TF2, I think two resources per city is a whole lot easier than TF1's four resources. While TF2 graphic has improved massively over TF1, but I missed the challenges of moving all four resources into cities. If I want to make everything pretty, then I would play CitiesSkylines instead of TF2. Hopefully there would be option to bring all four resources in future patch.

[TheLostPenguin]

You can already go back to needing 6 goods per city via various mods, some which ramp up the requirements over time and others that make it so you need everything everywhere from the start as in TpF1. The chances of the vanilla game going back to that system are probably pretty low, not least due to the aforementioned mods existing.

Is it easier as-is? Maybe a little, but you're probably laying a fairly similar amount of track since you now have to shift far more raw resources around between far more locations for each final product than before.

[SBGaming]

Transport Fever had six consumer goods. Transport Fever 2 also has six consumer goods. Fuel, Food, Goods, Tools, Machines, ConMat.

There actually is a challenge in that not all cities demand all the goods. In Transport Fever it was simple to setup a Food Chain supplying one town, ConMat Chain supplying another town, Fuel supplying a third town, and then connecting the three towns together with intercity routes to ramp up demand. Want to crank up additional demand? Just connect up a fourth city and now you're just printing money.

In this game you might supply Food to a city, but none of the nearby cities require Food. Output at the Food Processor will be limited until you find a way to connect up a town some distance away. Now, unless you happen to be producing something near that town that can be brought back to the town you started at, guess what, that longer distance transport will be travelling one direction, and profit will be limited.

In Transport Fever all I had to do was setup a cargo hub outside each town as well as local supply lines into the town, then connect up the cargo hubs with intercity lines and then feed product into it, knowing that no matter how much product I feed into the network, demand will be through the roof, and I'll be printing money like crazy.

What makes things easy is the fact that cargo chains need not actually be completed, and cargo flows a whole lot easier than it did in the previous game because production facilities and raw resource producers are not limited to the demand flowing from towns.

[Gregorovitch]

Originally posted by designrama:

After putting in 50+ hours in TF2, I think two resources per city is a whole lot easier than TF1's four resources.

It's not easier, it's harder. Significantly harder.

You see why from screen shot I posted on a similar "TF2 is too eazy" thread:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1965440960

As you can see I have all the money in the world but as far as satisfying city demand and promoting city growth is concerned I have failed miserably. The reason is precisely because cities only demand two specific wares (and also that factories max out production at 400 which further turns the screw).

When you can post a screenshot of the city statistics table with every good demanded in every city satisfied and growth all at 500% and do so without "cheating" by freezing the game calendar, then you can claim the game is too easy if you like.

[philmo]

I've yet to start a game in TPF2 where I can get the right mix of commercial/industrial supply vs demand. With medium cities and factories I find the maps far too busy with industry placements. When going for Low industries there is not enough production (from my experience) to support city demand. So I found the only option of using the X2 mod - but now with a few cities over 500 demand for food its more than likely I will have to go to X4. I'm not too comfortable with this as it feels a little bit like cheating - but for me it is better than placing extra industries.

Still having lots of fun though,

[grapplehoeker]

Originally posted by Gregorovitch:

When you can post a screenshot of the city statistics table with every good demanded in every city satisfied and growth all at 500% and do so without "cheating" by freezing the game calendar, then you can claim the game is too easy if you like.

Ah but that's you setting the bar for your own satisfaction at 500% growth.
Personally, as long as I'm meeting the supply demands of the city for cargo to within 80-100% and by fulfilling enough destination demand to provide at least +30%, then I'm happy, regardless of the growth factor as long as it is positive or even stable.
And that, is easy to achieve, stalling the date clock or not (you cannot cheat a sandbox), or on any difficulty level.
Since it is easy to achieve, I still do not have any complaints though, because I don't play the game for challenge, but rather for 'painting'.

[SlimNasty™]

Originally posted by designrama:

After putting in 50+ hours in TF2, I think two resources per city is a whole lot easier than TF1's four resources. While TF2 graphic has improved massively over TF1, but I missed the challenges of moving all four resources into cities. If I want to make everything pretty, then I would play CitiesSkylines instead of TF2. Hopefully there would be option to bring all four resources in future patch.

Play a megalomanic map on hard with mega cities and limited resources, that'll keep you busy.

[grapplehoeker]

Originally posted by SlimNasty™:

Play a megalomanic map on hard with mega cities and limited resources, that'll keep you busy.

The only difference between easy/normal/hard difficulty is the amount of time it requires to play them. That isn't really a difficulty. It's a timesink variable ;)

[jhughes]

There are any number of mods to have more than 2 industries per cities.. Or IMHO even better, the senseless industries mod:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1951335527

[Gregorovitch]

Originally posted by grapplehoeker:

Ah but that's you setting the bar for your own satisfaction at 500% growth.

Not really - what I'm saying is that it is while true that making money per se is somewhat easier in TF2 than TF1 growing and supplying cities is a lot more difficult. The focus of challenge in the game (for those that want that and let's face it folk who complain about a game being too easy are generally looking for that) has therefore changed from financial gain to logistics and network design.

Example:

Originally posted by philmo:

......With medium cities and factories I find the maps far too busy with industry placements......... So I found the only option of using the X2 mod - but now with a few cities over 500 demand for food its more than likely I will have to go to X4..

Which is in effect using a mod to reduce the logistical and network design challenge. Not that I'm in any way criticising philmo for doing this, the whole point of this game is to play it how you like to and set your own goals. Nor am I criticising folk who start playing TF2 after some TF1 experience and jump to the conclusion that TF2 is easier, been dumbed down, 'cos this change in focus and the depth of the new challenge is far from obvious at first sight, possibly counter-intuitive.

For me the bottom line is that it's a lot easier for new players to get off the ground in TF2 but achieving max city growth across a map by say 2000 on hard difficulty without freezing the clock looks like a far harder challenge than anything set in TF1 to me. Which seems to me to be the best of both worlds.

[grapplehoeker]

Originally posted by grapplehoeker:

Ah but that's you setting the bar for your own satisfaction at 500% growth.

Originally posted by Gregorovitch:

Not really - what I'm saying is that it is while true that making money per se is somewhat easier in TF2 than TF1 growing and supplying cities is a lot more difficult. The focus of challenge in the game (for those that want that and let's face it folk who complain about a game being too easy are generally looking for that) has therefore changed from financial gain to logistics and network design.

For me the bottom line is that it's a lot easier for new players to get off the ground in TF2 but achieving max city growth across a map by say 2000 on hard difficulty without freezing the clock looks like a far harder challenge than anything set in TF1 to me. Which seems to me to be the best of both worlds.

There is no in game requirement to achieve max growth though or by any date.
That is your own personal goal which you set yourself ;)

[Gregorovitch]

Originally posted by grapplehoeker:

There is no in game requirement to achieve max growth though or by any date.
That is your own personal goal which you set yourself ;)

No, but it is a traditional TF success benchmark I would say.

[CunkFeatures]

Its hard if you play like real life, rather than a YouTuber. Real life you have money and space to worry about, so have multiple lines running on the same track. YouTubers build dedicated routes for every line criss-crossing the map... ugly.

TpF1 you just had 1 mixed traffic train going to each town... super easy. TpF2 you need to skip some towns, build hubs, balance demand, then get the goods there without holding up any of the network.

[Gregorovitch]

Originally posted by tomtalk24:

TpF1 you just had 1 mixed traffic train going to each town... super easy.

Exactly.

An additional benefit of the new system is that whereas in TF1 the same basic plan would work on any map, in TF2 it won't necessarily since the distribution of town demand and industry placement can vary considerably map to map requiring a different design approach for each one. Keeps new games fresher.

[grapplehoeker]

Originally posted by Gregorovitch:

No, but it is a traditional TF success benchmark I would say.

Meh... tom(AY)to, tom(AH)to ;)
I'm perfectly satisfied with a fully functioning network and all supply/demands met.
That is my benchmark for success.
I could care less about max growth TBH ;)

[Gregorovitch]

Originally posted by grapplehoeker:

I could care less about max growth TBH ;)

Nobody, least of all me is saying you should