Multiplayer is a must

[Persason]

Transport Fever 2 announced YAY!
However the first game lacked multiplayer, which i truly hope they will add to the second game.
How awesome would it be if you could actually compete against each other building your own transport tycoon? It would actually bring some challenge to the game and add a whole other dimension.

Thoughts?
Regards!

[themajor]

I thought I was alone in this, but I personaly too could not care any less about multiplayer....

[Legata Flavia]

Multiplayer is a no way. Please dont try that crap on this piece of gem.

[cplan40]

Originally posted by Grimdanfango:

Originally posted by cplan40:

Its because of the old days of Railroad Tycoon 2 and 3 where multiplayer was core to those games. the dramatic competition and the ability to use the stock market to affect the growth or demise of your opponents company as much as your own (or your own personal pocket book) defined the genre. No other Transport Tycoon game has come close. Its just that we want to see that amazing gameplay option brought to Transport Fever because TF is clearly the king Transport Tycoon game right now and Competitive Multiplayer and Stock Market would only improve upon the experience. I don't want to force Multiplayer on those who want the current TF experience, but we want the option to introduce the difficulty of the economic simulation to be pushed to its limits by competition.

Correction... it defined *a* genre. A genre that Transport Fever isn't really part of.
I never even liked the Railroad Tycoon games, because they were mostly about economics, with a basic, simplified rail-network element. Transport Fever isn't really about economics, it's about engineering.

It very much is in the Railroad Tycoon Genre. You have to remember that those games were made over two decades ago and limited by their time. It would be like saying that Battlefield isn't an FPS like Doom because Battlefield has vehicles. As time progresses, and systems get better, games can expand their horizons and focus on larger variety. That's why when Transport Tycoon came out four years after Railroad Tycoon it was able to accomplish what it did. those two games were in the same genre. The Transport series is very much in the Train Tycoon Genre, just look at the leaps and bounds that they advanced between track laying in Train Fever and that in Transport Fever where engineering took a forefront emphasis. But that emphasis doesn't undercut the core game mechanics which are based on the Railroad Tycoon example of build a railroad and profit.

As for everyone else; You guys are like the battlefield players who said that they didn't want to see single player in a Battlefield game because it would ruin the experience. Then Dice made the Bad Company Series which has by far the best Multiplayer game play in the series and a pretty decent single player mission campaign too.

Point being, they can add multiplayer without touching the single player experience by changing the way the game functions for multiplayer games. If you don't want Multiplayer that's fine, but just because you don't want it doesn't mean it wouldn't be a great addition to the game.

[Dan]

Originally posted by cplan40:

Originally posted by Grimdanfango:

Correction... it defined *a* genre. A genre that Transport Fever isn't really part of.
I never even liked the Railroad Tycoon games, because they were mostly about economics, with a basic, simplified rail-network element. Transport Fever isn't really about economics, it's about engineering.

It very much is in the Railroad Tycoon Genre. You have to remember that those games were made over two decades ago and limited by their time. It would be like saying that Battlefield isn't an FPS like Doom because Battlefield has vehicles. As time progresses, and systems get better, games can expand their horizons and focus on larger variety. That's why when Transport Tycoon came out four years after Railroad Tycoon it was able to accomplish what it did. those two games were in the same genre. The Transport series is very much in the Train Tycoon Genre, just look at the leaps and bounds that they advanced between track laying in Train Fever and that in Transport Fever where engineering took a forefront emphasis. But that emphasis doesn't undercut the core game mechanics which are based on the Railroad Tycoon example of build a railroad and profit.

As for everyone else; You guys are like the battlefield players who said that they didn't want to see single player in a Battlefield game because it would ruin the experience. Then Dice made the Bad Company Series which has by far the best Multiplayer game play in the series and a pretty decent single player mission campaign too.

Point being, they can add multiplayer without touching the single player experience by changing the way the game functions for multiplayer games. If you don't want Multiplayer that's fine, but just because you don't want it doesn't mean it wouldn't be a great addition to the game.

Why was Railroad Tycoon 2/3 nothing like Transport Tycoon then, if it's all just a progression dictated by technological advancement?

A genre is nothing more than what you define it as. "Tycoon" games aren't a genre, they're a bunch of disparate simulations that all used the word "Tycoon" because it wasn't trademarked, and would allow developers to ride on the successes of other, unrelated "Tycoon" games.

Both Railroad Tycoon and Transport Tycoon shared a suffix, and a theme of being about trains. There the similarity ended.

To use your logic, it'd be like comparing Arma 3 and DOOM (2016), both modern, technologically advanced games. They're both played from a 1st-person-perspective, so you can call them both "FPS". The statement is meaningless though, as they're utterly incomparable in any other way... mainly because they were *designed* to be entirely different games with entirely different goals.
...as different as one simulator focusing on an economic simulation, while another focuses on infrastructure engineering.

I'm not sure where all these people were who demanded single player in Battlefield. Battlefield was simply a good multiplayer game for at least its first two incarnations... then it got stretched into the modern triple-A slog it became. None of what was once good about it had anything to do with single player.


Anyway, this all comes down to your "point being". No, they cannot just add multiplayer without touching the single player experience. They would either have to make significant compromises, hamstringing the game in the process, or they would have to literally code two different games. Either way, a massive amount of development time and resources are pouring into something besides making the single-player game as good as can be.

Of course adding multiplayer will affect the single player experience.

[Legata Flavia]

Lets make it simple. Dont pollute this gem, with multicancer. Concentrate on maps, vehicles, gameplay and optimization.

[mmmcheesywaffles]

Originally posted by cplan40:

......, they can add multiplayer without touching the single player experience by changing the way the game functions for multiplayer games. If you don't want Multiplayer that's fine, but just because you don't want it doesn't mean it wouldn't be a great addition to the game.

There are two major problems with your assertion.

1] Resources used to make an MP version of the game will almost certainly be better used improving the Single Player experience.

2] The Forum would be clogged with lots of MP issues and queries... it's bad enough now with all the posts asking for MP

Other possible issues I can think of are as follows:-

Steam Achievements for teh game in total will mena that those of us who WANT them can't get them to 100% without playing MP... and I dare say many SP players will not want that.

MP is often asked for in a game yet once added the SP market remains the biggest share yet SP players are expected to suffer the unequal share of MP related bugs; resource 'squandering'; additional costs of production.

MP could result in a lot of damage to the modders work.

I was an adult when RRT came out and I have to agree the first version was not to my liking. However, by the time RRT3 was available it set the standard for the genre, and imho still has features Transport Fever needs. Most players who denigrate the game hardly tried to learn it. Often I saw comments from complainers who clearly had not played the campaigns and had missed out on being forced into trying differing gameplay to get those Golds.

TF1 certainly has interesting campaigns and for some Medals I need to keep trying. That all adds to the gameplay. You just can't reload in a MP game!

One issue of some MP gamers is that when they are too challenged they drop the game leaving other players to cope with thier unwillingness to keep playing when they are clearly losing. It's not a nice thing to have happen to a game you are winning with your skills.

Then there are those who find exploits to beat their opponents. Where's the fun in that? Yet this world is full of selfish players who get their kick out of wrecking other peoples games.

So no I don't accept your assertion that developing the game to have an MP option 'without touching'. The ONLY way it could work is for TWO separate games... but I somehow doubt that there really is a large enough market to put up with all the negative realities of letting those who socialise through their PC to argue for a MP version that they actually buy and play. I suspect their game Libraries are full of great games hardly touched.

This whole genre is about long single player games. That is not what fits the attention span of most MP players who would often rather play 1 game a 'night' than put hundreds of hours into making one game look prettier and have their towns and economy working well.

If you can address most of those problems then I would accept a limited MP game; personally I would love to see AI competitors with personalities [as was done in RRT3] However, I would always want a true SP experience available

[Legata Flavia]

**Loud applause**

[genemead]

People who demand MP want a game where they can "win". It may be another human (their "friend") or an AI, but they feel the need to "beat" somebody. They never imagine losing, and they'll quit if they start getting beat. They just have to play a game where they can "win". The thought of a game where they are the competition is foreign to them.

The problem with an AI (or playing with another human) is the level of competition. The opponent is either too easy or too hard to "beat". With SP you don't have that problem- not only is it hard to beat yourself, "they" are as good as you!

Would they play a game where their buddy always beats them? Of course not.

I'd much rather have a great SP game than a lousy MP one.

[ajax_post]

Originally posted by genemead:

People who demand MP want a game where they can "win".
...

I'd much rather have a great SP game than a lousy MP one.

Quite so.

The best games are those that allow you to be creative and tell stories but with a bit a challenge (The Sims, SImCity, Transport Fever, etc.). You have to learn how to "succeed" and then you're free to explore endless creative possibilities.

[ricblack49]

Ripple of applause continues....

I too thought I was in the minority with thinking no to Multiplayer.

This game is more suited to self challenge and creativity.

I consider Multiplayer is more for Sports games, Fighting games and people who generally want to beat each other over the head with a stick (metaphorically speaking).

(I've just imagined clicking on the bulldozer and destroying my competitors creation, is that how it would work? Play nicely - take it in turns on the bulldozer!)

[Meow Meow]

Multiplayer... No thanks. We saw MP in SimCity (that last one). Honestly - it sucks.
OpenTTD type of MP also is no go. I'd like to accelerate my game than waiting for hours for new vehicle appear.
Also, MP is super complicated topic in transport tycoons. It's nice to have, but it's kinda useless.
Most of us have different style of gameplay AND different mod setups. For example, I live in Russia, and I want russian vehicles in my TF. But I'll be forced to download vehicles for other countries which I will never use and they will be just consuming my disk space without any use.

Also, MP WILL create trolls, who will ruin your game.

Trust me, after few games with them, you will never play tycoon's MP again

[ClearchusOfSparta]

No MP for me.

[mobabu]

Originally posted by Sumimoto:

Multiplayer... No thanks. We saw MP in SimCity (that last one). Honestly - it sucks.
OpenTTD type of MP also is no go. I'd like to accelerate my game than waiting for hours for new vehicle appear.
Also, MP is super complicated topic in transport tycoons. It's nice to have, but it's kinda useless.
Most of us have different style of gameplay AND different mod setups. For example, I live in Russia, and I want russian vehicles in my TF. But I'll be forced to download vehicles for other countries which I will never use and they will be just consuming my disk space without any use.

Also, MP WILL create trolls, who will ruin your game.

Trust me, after few games with them, you will never play tycoon's MP again

Why do you think OpenTTD MP sucks?
In my opinion this is a smart way to work around a big MP in game with servers etc. So you can create games or hoste them online an others can join them. ITs great I think.
OTTD also has some rly nice elements in it... ad for example but its a other topic...

[cplan40]

Originally posted by Grimdanfango:

Originally posted by cplan40:

It very much is in the Railroad Tycoon Genre. You have to remember that those games were made over two decades ago and limited by their time. It would be like saying that Battlefield isn't an FPS like Doom because Battlefield has vehicles. As time progresses, and systems get better, games can expand their horizons and focus on larger variety. That's why when Transport Tycoon came out four years after Railroad Tycoon it was able to accomplish what it did. those two games were in the same genre. The Transport series is very much in the Train Tycoon Genre, just look at the leaps and bounds that they advanced between track laying in Train Fever and that in Transport Fever where engineering took a forefront emphasis. But that emphasis doesn't undercut the core game mechanics which are based on the Railroad Tycoon example of build a railroad and profit.

As for everyone else; You guys are like the battlefield players who said that they didn't want to see single player in a Battlefield game because it would ruin the experience. Then Dice made the Bad Company Series which has by far the best Multiplayer game play in the series and a pretty decent single player mission campaign too.

Point being, they can add multiplayer without touching the single player experience by changing the way the game functions for multiplayer games. If you don't want Multiplayer that's fine, but just because you don't want it doesn't mean it wouldn't be a great addition to the game.

A genre is nothing more than what you define it as. "Tycoon" games aren't a genre, they're a bunch of disparate simulations that all used the word "Tycoon" because it wasn't trademarked, and would allow developers to ride on the successes of other, unrelated "Tycoon" games.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_simulation_game

Steam's Summery description of Transport Fever First line: "Transport Fever is a railroad­-focused tycoon game."

I'm just going to leave this here and let the echo chamber continue. there are clearly some strange theories being exposed about game design in this thread and I've already made my point so no need to continue here because I'm not interested in beating anyone, I just want a fun, thought provoking game and for us to use facts not feelings when it comes to improving this already great franchise.

[mmmcheesywaffles]

A Tycoon game is a business simulation. A transport game is a Transport simulation game. But those are not by any means exclusive labels for exclusive genre.

The business simulation present in Transport Tycoon is a Demand driven economy. If it were just about the engineering it would fail to deliver the gameplay that Transport Fever so beautifully has done.

Without the business simulation the game would require some other mechanic to deliver gameplay... such as new vehicles materialising in Depots on a time basis. But it doesn't.... it uses earnings from ticket sales to simulate an economy and as such is most definitely a fully fledged member of the Transport Tycoon type game genre.

Note the number of YouTubers who play the game and keep the economy functional despite mods available to enable gameplay without costs.

Perhaps those who mod their game to remove costs are making THEIR game merely a Transport sim, but most of us play the game WITH an economy.

Economy is yet another argument against an MP version. Not only is it often exploited by hacking game files it is often seen as undesirable in MP games.