explain the EULA issues to me

[UnderEmpire Kingpin]

Right now I am not buying what otherwise is exactly what my boy would love, and one his mother and I would also grab to play with him, maybe even a copy for his younger brother if it seemed simple enough for a 5 year old who likes minecraft. But I have serious issues with EULAs these days and how much ♥♥♥♥ they try to bury in legalese word vomit. What exactly is in here that would be an issue, specifically in the case of data collection and kids?

I am not concerned about some of the stuff I have seen like maybe mods being limited or outright banned, or the idea that chat may be monitored since I can't see it actually happening or my kids saying anything that would be an issue since we would all be in the same room chatting directly outside the game, and I would not let them into random multiplayer worlds per my standard rules for them playing games.

So what exactly is the concern here, I am not buying a game just to read a EULA haha. Also Devs, seriously, why even put yourselves in this position with last minute EULA changes? Regardless of the actual content that is a douche move.

[DrSupermanShadow]

Sadly the Pre 2020 world still exists
( and most likely will go on until the people civil revolution and actual start a death war)

SO business still do what ever they want when it comes to law...
they set what ever EULA And TOS
they want for the easiest to access read and under stand law areas of a nation...

They almost never put in the extra work and effort because almost all pree 2020 countries had over a billion laws to follow. and game law was never easy to find or compile...
nether are privacy laws or even all business laws...
( example Ex USA you had to go thru 164 books, and 4 million supreme court cases
to learn if you would break the law)

Even though by world populace majority vote
by using the 1 world law that was esyablished in 1946(and which almost all world leader seem to not know about even though the world law documents are public access)

North/South/Central America, Asia, Africa, And Europe are new Horizens Nation

and all games on steam because valve is a NHN North America HQ'ed Business
have to follow NHN Laws that included TOS Law EULA Law Code of Conduct law....

a company can only collect data to improve on their services.
and only for that service so a company can't give that data to a subsidiary.

They are not allowed to sell protected information.

terms of service,
Eula are not allowed to be in legalese and must be readable so that even a person witha basic 5 grade education can read them,

The ECJ( and ICOJ) both stated all services that have a tos must follow their nations Laws so as of 2020 if the people dissolved a nation or annexed to another that company would ether have to move or follow they new nations laws...

both cases where really detailed and boring reads so i wont bore you with the details...
except for this The UN, Interpol, ICOJ all know that a word rights war is going on and to this date have only filed paperwork regarding it but have taken no step to end it....

Sadly that is the way of the world.. and these companies tend to hold all the power..

so unless you plan on taking an army to these companies they will continue to do what ever they want... and the will use the argument well they signed a tos...

of course if these companies had bothered to do their due dilliagence the would know about all the world law cases that were lost and that reason thrown out because the civilians presented to the judge and out right said i couldn't make heads or tails of this
we weren't taught this language in my high school,
I just say sure what ever just so i could play the game..

[Shazza]

In a nutshell: there's currently a major conflict in the EULA where they're saying they will sell your data, while KRAFTON's public reps are saying they won't.
The EULA overrides their representatives, so any given data is very possibly at risk of being sold for marketing if you hit "Agree", which has been largely considered a breach of trust given James Bendon's original EULA (before this publisher acquisition) was explicitly against data resale in all forms.

The long of it: the boilerplate (posted without reformatting or recontextualising to Dinkum as a service ((game)) EULA states that KRAFTON (the publisher for Dinkum, James Bendon is the developer) will freely acquire and sell any collected user data to third parties for the purposes of marketing and marketing analytics.

KRAFTON's representatives - both the public figure(s) that have been posting announcement pages to Steam, and their Privacy Team (on personal contact) - have gone on record to say that "We will not sell your data".
Notably they have not specified that "Our word is above the Privacy Policy (EULA) that we're asking you to sign".

The EULA trumps their word by nature of being a legal document.
That's a conflict of interest in respects to privacy of your data, and depending on your country and jurisdiction you may want to either avoid Dinkum until such a time as the EULA is updated to truthfully reflect the publisher's public word, or escalate to your local member.

ie. I'm currently waiting for their Privacy Team to send a response to get final clarity on the matter. If 30 days pass without reply (May 16th), I'm within my rights as an Australian citizen to escalate via OAIC (Office of the Australian Information Commissioner) for KRAFTON's mismanagement of data and consumer agreed terms.

[yoru]

Since your thread is only inviting the wrong kind of people, here's a real answer:

The main problem with a lot of the tinfoil hat people going on and on about the EULA is that they don't seem to realize the oh so "ImPoRtAnT DaTa" that Krafton can ACTUALLY see is the same as EVERY OTHER GAME PUBLISHER on steam. They only get what steam gives them: your username, your system, your country, your library and types of games you tend to buy. This is normal and it helps other publishers to promote their games specifically targeted to you so that if you like farming games you're not gonna get some R18 japanese tentacle p-rn game in your recommends lol. None of it is actually personal info, and is mostly statistics at best.

Everything else (like your CC number, your real name etc) is handled by Valve/Steam and publishers do NOT get to see it. So yeah maybe Krafton can see you're located in America and played Hentai Smeccy Girls for 5000 hours and you tend to play at 3am in the morning on weekdays which implies you're jobless but it's not like that info isn't already available to ALL the publishers of games you have in your library lol.

The reason why Krafton can EASILY say they will not "sell" your data is because IT IS NOT WORTH SELLING AT ALL. These ppl going on and on are just overly self-important and think anyone and everyone is out to get their data. No one cares, John, M, 35 from Florida.

Will they "use" the above information? Of course. Just like how twitter and youtube and google does to target content to you. Youtube probably has more info about you than Krafton would ever be able to obtain, plain and simple. lol.

[100% Recycled Awesome]

This review is...frighteningly ignorant regarding the EULA.

https://steamcommunity.com/id/glnmrth/recommended/1062520/

[Obiwan]

Originally posted by 100% Recycled Awesome:

This review is...frighteningly ignorant regarding the EULA.

https://steamcommunity.com/id/glnmrth/recommended/1062520/

genuine question - what part is ignorant? elaborate if you could please.

[100% Recycled Awesome]

Originally posted by Obiwan:

Originally posted by 100% Recycled Awesome:

This review is...frighteningly ignorant regarding the EULA.

https://steamcommunity.com/id/glnmrth/recommended/1062520/

genuine question - what part is ignorant? elaborate if you could please.

1) Identifiers such as, SteamID64, nickname, IP address, email address, language, nationality, etc.;

Aside from email, which I was under the impression that Steam doesn't provide to developers or publishers, the rest of the data is largely useless or public. And IPs are often masked anyways by your router. Steam Nickname is literally on our profile. I don't understand how this is a problem for them to get it when they can literally just use an index trawler to pull nicknames as it is without any EULA. All our profiles are on the website version of Steam. Knowing I speak English is somehow a problem...why when there are literally hundreds of millions of English speakers? Wut...?

2) Device or Network Information such as, OS version, etc.;
3) Game information, such as information about crash report and system activity details(game setting, play date/time, etc.); and

Literally done to make the game playable, especially multiplayer. The review is all upset that the developer and publisher have access to basic data to make the game run well and troubleshoot bugs. This level of stupidity hurts my head. "How dare they get data to make sure bugs can get solved!" SMH.

4) Purchase information, such as purchase date, items, etc."

There are no microtransactions. This reviewer is upset that they could get data that literally does not exist. As for purchase date, what's the problem with the developer or publisher knowing when you bought it? Ironically, there are people wondering if early access buyers could get something special for being early access supporters. Literally would require knowing when the buyer bought the game. Again, the stupidity hurts my head.

[Obiwan]

Originally posted by 100% Recycled Awesome:

Originally posted by Obiwan:

genuine question - what part is ignorant? elaborate if you could please.

1) Identifiers such as, SteamID64, nickname, IP address, email address, language, nationality, etc.;

Aside from email, which I was under the impression that Steam doesn't provide to developers or publishers, the rest of the data is largely useless or public. And IPs are often masked anyways by your router. Steam Nickname is literally on our profile. I don't understand how this is a problem for them to get it when they can literally just use an index trawler to pull nicknames as it is without any EULA. All our profiles are on the website version of Steam. Knowing I speak English is somehow a problem...why when there are literally hundreds of millions of English speakers? Wut...?

2) Device or Network Information such as, OS version, etc.;
3) Game information, such as information about crash report and system activity details(game setting, play date/time, etc.); and

Literally done to make the game playable, especially multiplayer. The review is all upset that the developer and publisher have access to basic data to make the game run well and troubleshoot bugs. This level of stupidity hurts my head. "How dare they get data to make sure bugs can get solved!" SMH.

4) Purchase information, such as purchase date, items, etc."

There are no microtransactions. This reviewer is upset that they could get data that literally does not exist. As for purchase date, what's the problem with the developer or publisher knowing when you bought it? Ironically, there are people wondering if early access buyers could get something special for being early access supporters. Literally would require knowing when the buyer bought the game. Again, the stupidity hurts my head.

See i did my own research because i wrongly assumed the people who had so much to say on this had done theirs too.

The guy who said it was inviting the wrong kind of people struck a nerve ... hence i removed my original post because i don't like to speak in ignorance and then you pointed out ignorance in that review.

Based on everything said my only remaining gripe is that regardless of what Steam does or does not provide - that is indeed what the EULA says.

Which means it is boilerplate copy and paste from their mobile/website and in no way considerate of the fact this is a Steam based product and alot of that info doesn't pertain and thus a new and bespoke EULA should be in place ... this isn't their only Steam title.

So my only actual concern is one based on principle not tinfoil hats or ignorance.

I don't think it is particularly enthusing that companies can be so callous given that in the EU and UK - Data Protection is taken far far more seriously than where you are from, and while i agree that is not your concern - it isn't fair to smack down those who it is. Tinfoil hats be damned our relative governments enforce these laws and regulations because they are equally concerned about how things work in this day and age.

BUT! i do agree that this entire campaign shouldn't be waged on Steam shouldn't be waged with bad reviews and ultimately ... given we are all using Steam and have plenty EULA's we have signed off on - is superfluous.

Like i said. Principle.

Thanks for taking the time Awesome.

[Eran]

Originally posted by UnderEmpire Kingpin:

Right now I am not buying what otherwise is exactly what my boy would love, and one his mother and I would also grab to play with him, maybe even a copy for his younger brother if it seemed simple enough for a 5 year old who likes minecraft. But I have serious issues with EULAs these days and how much ♥♥♥♥ they try to bury in legalese word vomit. What exactly is in here that would be an issue, specifically in the case of data collection and kids?

I am not concerned about some of the stuff I have seen like maybe mods being limited or outright banned, or the idea that chat may be monitored since I can't see it actually happening or my kids saying anything that would be an issue since we would all be in the same room chatting directly outside the game, and I would not let them into random multiplayer worlds per my standard rules for them playing games.

So what exactly is the concern here, I am not buying a game just to read a EULA haha. Also Devs, seriously, why even put yourselves in this position with last minute EULA changes? Regardless of the actual content that is a douche move.

I discuss the issues I personally have and provide multiple examples of EULA abuse by publishers here: https://steamcommunity.com/app/1062520/discussions/0/600775554275231724/

The TLDR: The way the EULA is currently written, KRAFTON reserves the right to collect and use system data and user chat data however they want. How they claim they WILL use that is irrelevant in the light that they are reserving the right to do whatever. There are also multiple overreaching and redundant terms that I highlight.

The item of concern for me is an increasing rise in automated response. Because steam games are licensed and not purchased, they can run your chat data into an AI enforcement platform and take your game away for EULA violations, without human input. And you would have no legal recourse because you agreed that was just A-OK!

You mention your kids? Well, lets say they accidentally dupe stuff, figure duping out, and start doing it. Their chat could be used for TOS enforcement and take away their licenses to the game. Meaning, no more game, 40 bucks down drain.

I wouldn't care as much if it was still just the normal developer guy. Still a bad look, but whatever. Being that it's a MOBILE GAME PUBLISHER? Nah. Ick. Gross. Don't like it.

Edit for clarity: Duping is so hilariously easy in this game it's 100% realistic to think a 5 year old could solve it. In a 4 player group with varied schedules, it's virtually unavoidable to happen on accident.

Edit 2: Regarding comparing this EULA and Steam's EULA. Steam hosts games, KRAFTON publishes and maybe makes games. Steam's EULA NEEDS to be more comprehensive than KRAFTON's. Comparing the two is akin to, and just as wrong as, saying "pygmy hippo's are just baby elephants." Steam has games that any of KRAFTON's terms (except the reputation one) would apply to. KRAFTON doesn't. It's just a "what about"-ism.

[ZzzDarkCloudzzZ]

Op, literally nothing is going on, the same type of people that were freaking out about Covid being caused by the 5G towers are spreading misinformation, the data Krafton Collects is literally steam provided basic information like what computer brand do you use, Nvidia? thats fine its generic, what games are you most likely to play? survivals and rpgs for me, generic again, email? only if provided to steam will steam provide email, if you have it set to private on steam it wont be collected, if you've played Marvel Rivals, Overwatch, Elden Ring, PubG, Rust, literally any game on steam that has online multiplayer it has the same Eula and data collecting permissions. Theres nothing here being gathered that you didnt already consent to steam to give. If you dont want something to be collected just make your steam private and they will have much limited access to your steam information. Not that it matters though.

[ZzzDarkCloudzzZ]

In contrast. Dinkum is a wonderful game to play with close friends and family, especially now with the 1.0 Update, all players if permitted, can help grow and manage the town.

[jollibee]

What information could they get from you that isn't already readily available to anyone that desires it? Do they have access to your address, credit card information, social security number? I would really hope not. If it is just your steam username and how long you play their game then it doesn't really matter.

[ZzzDarkCloudzzZ]

Originally posted by jollibee:

What information could they get from you that isn't already readily available to anyone that desires it? Do they have access to your address, credit card information, social security number? I would really hope not. If it is just your steam username and how long you play their game then it doesn't really matter.

Bingo, they have access to date you have provided for your steam profile. As well as other data you allowed steam to collect like those occational surveys steam asks of you, except Dinkum wont be asking you for surveys, so its technically much less info they are taking than steam in general, but all of it is public, you'd be surprised at what people openly share in their profiles. For example if you click on my profile you can see many things, including my name since i provided it, state of residence.

[Eran]

Originally posted by ZzzDarkCloudzzZ:

Originally posted by jollibee:

What information could they get from you that isn't already readily available to anyone that desires it? Do they have access to your address, credit card information, social security number? I would really hope not. If it is just your steam username and how long you play their game then it doesn't really matter.

Bingo, they have access to date you have provided for your steam profile. As well as other data you allowed steam to collect like those occational surveys steam asks of you, except Dinkum wont be asking you for surveys, so its technically much less info they are taking than steam in general, but all of it is public, you'd be surprised at what people openly share in their profiles. For example if you click on my profile you can see many things, including my name since i provided it, state of residence.

Except they explicitly reserve the right to collect and use your in game chat data in the privacy statement.

[ZzzDarkCloudzzZ]

Originally posted by Eran:

Originally posted by ZzzDarkCloudzzZ:

Bingo, they have access to date you have provided for your steam profile. As well as other data you allowed steam to collect like those occational surveys steam asks of you, except Dinkum wont be asking you for surveys, so its technically much less info they are taking than steam in general, but all of it is public, you'd be surprised at what people openly share in their profiles. For example if you click on my profile you can see many things, including my name since i provided it, state of residence.

Except they explicitly reserve the right to collect and use your in game chat data in the privacy statement.

And thats fine, so do other games on steam

[Eran]

Originally posted by ZzzDarkCloudzzZ:

And thats fine, so do other games on steam

I keep pointing it out but steel skulled folks like you keep ignoring it. Other games on steam and steam themselves have VALID reasons for having such items in their EULA. It probably WOULD be just fine were this an MMO or possibly even a game with perpetual uptime hosted servers like ARK.

Dinkum. Is. Not. Those. Games.

Context matters. In THIS context, there is no reason for such a term. You pretty much blow it off as "oh, it's just information about your machine." But it's not. It's literally any in-game interaction with another player. You're justifying with "what about"-isms that literal privacy invasion is just fine.

And for what? Do you really believe you're defending Dinkum? All you're sticking up for is a mobile game publisher who is saying one thing while actively writing in THE legal document the exact opposite. A publisher who can't even be bothered to make sure Dinkum's support page functions. That is what you're defending. Think on that.