Control / Timing Issues

[♾]

I'm absolutely loving the game! I found 2 major problems with higher level play. There's about a ~200 millisecond gap between a key press and the note playing. This makes faster notes, like in Beethoven's Fifth for example, unnecessarily difficult. On top of that is the flat score calculation per note without accounting for its length. This makes it so very long notes are overly lenient and the shortest notes are, especially in quick succession, combined with the ~200 millisecond gap, excessively difficult. Under these circumstances, perfect play requires you to filter out the trombone noise because its noise is delayed too much to be a proper indicator of accurate timing on bursts of fast notes, but you also want its noise as an indicator of accurate pitch. I managed S ranks on every song, but it feels wrong on faster songs. If it's possible for the trombone noise delay to be fixed and the note score calculations to take length into account, 10/10 game! :)

EDIT: The most recent update improved the short note score calculation!

Bonus EDIT: Have since managed an S rank on the champ mix with mouse only. Everything is doable, but it's hard on your finger(s)!

[madcow]

wow that would be amazing, thanks for looking into it!

[-ßЯҢ- CYBER PYRO]

Originally posted by Mr. Holy Wow:

As for the second thing, that's actually a purposeful design decision that people have specifically requested, because it means you can alternate keys and be guaranteed a little gap between keypresses no matter what. Previously, it was difficult to alternate keys and confirm there would be a gap. This might take some more tweaking to make everyone happy - thinking maybe having this as a setting in the settings screen...

Options to configure it would be perfect! I prefer the pre-patch behavior because with an extended note from going between keys I was at least not missing notes even if the combo/CHAMP meter got affected.

Now when going between keys (pressing one while another is being released) I'm missing notes entirely because the timing of the press of the second key is on point, but doesn't get seen as an input until the first key is fully released. By the time the first key is fully released it's halfway into a short note and is seen as a miss.

Maybe have it so that when a second key is pressed while a first key is held, it quickly triggers an OnRelease event for the first key before processing an OnPress event for the second key within the same frame? That way the second key press's timing is closer to when the second key is pressed, and not when the first key is released.

It's putting some strain on my hand trying to manage a key release timing on top of a second press timing and I just fall back to rapidly hitting one key and needing to occasionally switch up which finger I'm using to press a key throughout the song.

Apologies if this is not feasible, I've managed to get S on most the songs but the only ones I can't muster above A are the songs with streams of short notes and those become pain when trying to use one key, and moreso when trying to not get dead air when alternating between two keys.

[BigTpsychoboy]

Originally posted by Mr. Holy Wow:

As a heads-up, I'm talking with a guy on Twitter about implementing ASIO to get the latency even lower. He got it working already using a publicly-available plugin, so it might not be too difficult to get implemented...

That would be amazing. I love this game and the short doots are much better, but not perfect when using the keyboard. The mouse seems to have no delay, but I much prefer to use the keyboard.

[Emotional Damage™]

It seems that every rhythm game using Unity engine I played has similar audio latency issue. (Personal opinion. I'm not a game developer.)
But I really hope the developer of this game can spend some time measuring and investigating the latency issue.
Being unable to play the difficult levels solely because of the latency is terribly frustrating.

[*:･ﾟ✧ INDI]

+1 ^^

[Mr. Holy Wow]

As a heads up, we have plans to officially put ASIO into the game, which should help this quite a bit. We've been in communication with the modder who built the ASIO mod and are basically going to do exactly what they did

[♾]

Great news! Thanks!

[Oro]

Using mouse or keyboard, the time between sound coming out of the thing after a click is waaaaay too long and makes every song sound bad even if you're dead on. Super weird considering Osu and other rhythm games have real-time hit sounds that should basically be the same in terms of input latency.

[Princess Fuzzy]

Originally posted by Mr. Holy Wow:

As a heads up, we have plans to officially put ASIO into the game, which should help this quite a bit. We've been in communication with the modder who built the ASIO mod and are basically going to do exactly what they did

Any progress on this front?

[Lord_Biggington]

+1

You can't be expected to "paint" all the notes whilst the trumpet is totally out of ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ time.

I seriously love this game, can we please get the option to reduce the Trombone delay? Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeease????

[quale]

This is a bit aggravating. The correct timing for me is about 40 ms to align the sound of a rapid tap on either the mouse or keyboard with the speaker, but then I need to make it way negative to align the trombone sound with the notes. No matter what I do, something is way off, which gets really confusing in faster sections. If I do get it right according to the game, it sounds wrong.

But I think we need to look further than tightening it up. The scoring could be looser, too. You can play a section basically correctly, just offset a bit, and get a massive penalty because you missed the beginning or ending of each note. You have to play super legato all the time, spamming even before the note, to get the game to like you. It should be more graceful about the edges. It could also do more of a 2D match, recognizing that you've matched the shape quite well, just with a slight horizontal offset. The current pitch-only system ironically makes timing way more brutal than games that purport to be about timing.

Because you actually make sound, this game inherently has timing issues and will keep some. It should take some responsibility for that.

[Gex]

yeah beethoven's 5th doesnt make any sense, you try to press notes following the tempo and all the notes are misses

[Asayu]

I feel you can also looser the judge to allow early release for short notes. A player often makes shorter sounds than the original scores in a real instrument performance to handle tight pitch changes.

For example, the following "nasty" judgment might be too strict, considering the sound was not too bad. (from t=107, 1:47)

https://youtu.be/HwAeqRW9_fM?t=107

Originally posted by Mr. Holy Wow:

As a heads up, we have plans to officially put ASIO into the game, which should help this quite a bit. We've been in communication with the modder who built the ASIO mod and are basically going to do exactly what they did

[Mr. Holy Wow]

As an update, the ASIO integration turned out to be a much bigger pain than expected. We worked on it and couldn't get it working as expected, and we've been in talks with the unimaginably-skilled modder who tried to implement it themselves, and they said the same.

There are a few other options we'll explore to lessen latency. One of them will be a new setting in the next update which allows you to manually set the audio buffer size. People with powerful computers should be able to set the buffer pretty low, and the latency should be much improved. But users with slower computers will probably experience crackling / performance issues if they turn the buffer size down. Still, it should help some people for the moment...

[♾]

Thanks for the update! :)