Is this one harder than the last one?

[Mawi]

Hello, I just finished the Blind forest and now started Will of the Wisps. I already notice that there are few different things in the game, like lightsaber and you can't make your own checkpoints. Feels like this one have more fighting. What do you guys think, is the Will of the Wisps harder than Blind Forest? Are there other very different things from the first one like the ones I mentioned?

(also, is Sein in this game? I adored the voice)

[TECH SHETTY]

Ori and the Will of the Wisps has a bit darker plot than blind forest. It's map is much bigger than its prequel. ORI WOTW is pretty challenging.


Sein isn't in this game but there is a similar character called Seir.

[Mawi]

Originally posted by TECH SHETTY:

Ori and the Will of the Wisps has a bit darker plot than blind forest. It's map is much bigger than its prequel. ORI WOTW is pretty challenging.


Sein isn't in this game but there is a similar character called Seir.

Thanks for letting me know :). If the hard comes from game mechanics and not from rng, I think I can manage ^^

[Nibbie]

I'd say it is harder, but you also have more tools and build options and an automatic checkpoint system, so depending on your choices I'd say it mostly evens out. One big difference is there are way less instakills. They still exist, but aren't in every dungeon like Blind Forest was (thus lessening the need for manual checkpoints).

[Mako]

It depends on how you play and difficulty.
Blind Forest is full of random death traps. Many sections rely on memorization. I've generated a lot more deaths in this game. Difficulty barely affects anything.
Wisps is more fair. There are far less instakill hazards. Game uses more vivid colors and highlights environmental dangers a lot better than Forest did. Same applies to combat, bosses can be tough but everything is telegraphed. Deathless run achievement was a lot easier in Wisps. Damage scales with difficulty very noticably. Hard can be really hard in the beginning, but by the end its possible to become OP.

[Mawi]

Originally posted by Nibbie:

I'd say it is harder, but you also have more tools and build options and an automatic checkpoint system, so depending on your choices I'd say it mostly evens out. One big difference is there are way less instakills. They still exist, but aren't in every dungeon like Blind Forest was (thus lessening the need for manual checkpoints).

Originally posted by Mako:

It depends on how you play and difficulty.
Blind Forest is full of random death traps. Many sections rely on memorization. I've generated a lot more deaths in this game. Difficulty barely affects anything.
Wisps is more fair. There are far less instakill hazards. Game uses more vivid colors and highlights environmental dangers a lot better than Forest did. Same applies to combat, bosses can be tough but everything is telegraphed. Deathless run achievement was a lot easier in Wisps. Damage scales with difficulty very noticably. Hard can be really hard in the beginning, but by the end its possible to become OP.

Very interesting points and information, thank you two for that! Yes, I noticed in Will of The Wisps you don't seem to lose whole health point like in Blind Forest, also you can heal, so imperfect gameplay have some room. My kill count after finishing Blind Forest was about 1000, but I have to say to my defend, I didn't play games like this before I started BF x). I salute everyone who had done deathless run in BF or WotW, that must take a lot of practise and memorizing!

[Chocos Ramabotti]

I think it depends on how you played Blind Forest, if you mainly skilled on the white path, Blind Forest is definitely easier, especially if you try to make checkpoints as much as possible.
If you play without using much Checkpoints Blind Forest is very much harder, it also has more difficult escape sequences (there was a difficult one in Will of the Wisps but they nerfed it in a later patch)

[Mawi]

Originally posted by Chocos Ramabotti:

I think it depends on how you played Blind Forest, if you mainly skilled on the white path, Blind Forest is definitely easier, especially if you try to make checkpoints as much as possible.
If you play without using much Checkpoints Blind Forest is very much harder, it also has more difficult escape sequences (there was a difficult one in Will of the Wisps but they nerfed it in a later patch)

I used ability points in every path, but focused more on the green/white (can't remember the color?) more than red or purple :). Also yes, I did checkpoints quite often, so I didn't have to do some parts so many times. Escapes were very memorable in BF. Ginso tree was so adrenaline pumped, it felt a pretty hard for me (because I played it with keyboard back then. I changed to controller for the end game and skills are just so much easier to use).

[Chocos Ramabotti]

Originally posted by Mawi:

Originally posted by Chocos Ramabotti:

I think it depends on how you played Blind Forest, if you mainly skilled on the white path, Blind Forest is definitely easier, especially if you try to make checkpoints as much as possible.
If you play without using much Checkpoints Blind Forest is very much harder, it also has more difficult escape sequences (there was a difficult one in Will of the Wisps but they nerfed it in a later patch)

I used ability points in every path, but focused more on the green/white (can't remember the color?) more than red or purple :). Also yes, I did checkpoints quite often, so I didn't have to do some parts so many times. Escapes were very memorable in BF. Ginso tree was so adrenaline pumped, it felt a pretty hard for me (because I played it with keyboard back then. I changed to controller for the end game and skills are just so much easier to use).

Yeah there is nothing that comes close to the difficulty of the ginso tree escape in Will of the Wisps. Sadly the one they nerfed had a similiar effect on me back then although it's the last escape sequence.

The thing why Will of the Wisps can be seen as easier overall in my opinion is that it robs you of the feature setting your own checkpoints, the game basically sets checkpoints every 10 seconds for you. So you basically respawn after every jump, after every fight and this is IMO way too exaggerated. I understand they don't want to frustrate players, but there needs to be some "friction" or the plattforming simply isn't much exicting for me, or at least it doesnt feel satisfying dying through it. Especially because the checkpoints are completely invisible it seems so arbitrary and not logical to me.

[Mako]

I disagree. There isnt anything particularly hard about Ginso Tree in BF. The only thing that makes it hard is that its basically first time you have to do some platforming uninterrupted for a minute. It gives you a lot of extra time to grab optional collectibles along the way, if you ignore them then timing is a lot less tight than any Wisps escape.

Ginso Tree is "hard" because game does a poor job teaching player to do platforming uninterrupted. And manual checkpoints mechanic is partly responsible for this.
It also heavily relies on bash, skill you get half way through Ginso Tree and probably still learning how to use by that time.

No, Wisps doesnt save every 10s. Game is saved when you reach invisible barriers. They are properly spaced out in order to not save after every jump. Yes you can save even every 1s if you just keep crossing the same barrier back and forth but this will get you nowhere. This is the opposite of what BF does. Closer to the end in BF you have so much energy you can save every 2 steps. This completely removes all challenge and the main reason why escape sequences are such a big shock to many. Wisps throws you into water early and leaves you no choice but to learn how to swim.

Wisps also uses its increased size and takes time teaching player every skill they need before pumping up challenge. It also comes with extras that are specifically created to test your limits, like spirit escapes and time trials.

When going back from Wisps to BF all those escapes dont feel hard at all. Ginso Tree in particular is only mildly challengeing when you aim to collect every extra along the way.

[Mawi]

Originally posted by Chocos Ramabotti:

Yeah there is nothing that comes close to the difficulty of the ginso tree escape in Will of the Wisps. Sadly the one they nerfed had a similiar effect on me back then although it's the last escape sequence.

The thing why Will of the Wisps can be seen as easier overall in my opinion is that it robs you of the feature setting your own checkpoints, the game basically sets checkpoints every 10 seconds for you. So you basically respawn after every jump, after every fight and this is IMO way too exaggerated. I understand they don't want to frustrate players, but there needs to be some "friction" or the plattforming simply isn't much exicting for me, or at least it doesnt feel satisfying dying through it. Especially because the checkpoints are completely invisible it seems so arbitrary and not logical to me.

Originally posted by Mako:

I disagree. There isnt anything particularly hard about Ginso Tree in BF. The only thing that makes it hard is that its basically first time you have to do some platforming uninterrupted for a minute. It gives you a lot of extra time to grab optional collectibles along the way, if you ignore them then timing is a lot less tight than any Wisps escape.

Ginso Tree is "hard" because game does a poor job teaching player to do platforming uninterrupted. And manual checkpoints mechanic is partly responsible for this.
It also heavily relies on bash, skill you get half way through Ginso Tree and probably still learning how to use by that time.

No, Wisps doesnt save every 10s. Game is saved when you reach invisible barriers. They are properly spaced out in order to not save after every jump. Yes you can save even every 1s if you just keep crossing the same barrier back and forth but this will get you nowhere. This is the opposite of what BF does. Closer to the end in BF you have so much energy you can save every 2 steps. This completely removes all challenge and the main reason why escape sequences are such a big shock to many. Wisps throws you into water early and leaves you no choice but to learn how to swim.

Wisps also uses its increased size and takes time teaching player every skill they need before pumping up challenge. It also comes with extras that are specifically created to test your limits, like spirit escapes and time trials.

When going back from Wisps to BF all those escapes dont feel hard at all. Ginso Tree in particular is only mildly challengeing when you aim to collect every extra along the way.

I actually do understand why and when checkpoints are close by another. Best thing of that is, that I don't have to do some other unimportant thing first and after then I can practise that hard part where I struggle. For example (like in some games), if I'm practicing boss, I don't want to run the same long corridor before even getting to the boss. Running that long corridor don't serve any purpose :).

I don't think closer checkpoints remove challenge in BF. The game gets harder towards the end (there are more parts you have to do exactly right to progress) and I really appreciated the fact that I can place checkpoint sometimes in middle of the hard part (I think Folorn ruins were pretty hard to me atleast. Mt Horu was challenging, but easier as I changed to controller before that).

When I did Ginso tree with keyboard, yes it was really hard as we just learned a new skill and also because keyboard controls never felt very natual to me (didn't have controller back then). I think the challenge from escapes comes from not knowing what we are having in next step and also the timing things right. The end escape was more easier to me, but I don't know if others would have been easier to begin with if I have had the controller than keyboard + mouse :)

[Stretchyf]

Personally, I find Ori Blind Forest more challenging than Ori Will of the Wisps.

On normal difficulty you can tank through obstacles in Ori Will of the Wisps and Escapes in Ori WotW are more bark than bite. The only thing that might seem difficult compared to Blind Forest are the fights and bosses. But people who are used to hack and slash combat will find it not challenging in Ori Wotw. So, in my opinion, Ori Wotw is easier and more casual than Ori BF.

[Chocos Ramabotti]

Originally posted by Mako:

I disagree. There isnt anything particularly hard about Ginso Tree in BF. The only thing that makes it hard is that its basically first time you have to do some platforming uninterrupted for a minute. It gives you a lot of extra time to grab optional collectibles along the way, if you ignore them then timing is a lot less tight than any Wisps escape.

Ginso Tree is "hard" because game does a poor job teaching player to do platforming uninterrupted. And manual checkpoints mechanic is partly responsible for this.
It also heavily relies on bash, skill you get half way through Ginso Tree and probably still learning how to use by that time.

No, Wisps doesnt save every 10s. Game is saved when you reach invisible barriers. They are properly spaced out in order to not save after every jump. Yes you can save even every 1s if you just keep crossing the same barrier back and forth but this will get you nowhere. This is the opposite of what BF does. Closer to the end in BF you have so much energy you can save every 2 steps. This completely removes all challenge and the main reason why escape sequences are such a big shock to many. Wisps throws you into water early and leaves you no choice but to learn how to swim.

Wisps also uses its increased size and takes time teaching player every skill they need before pumping up challenge. It also comes with extras that are specifically created to test your limits, like spirit escapes and time trials.

When going back from Wisps to BF all those escapes dont feel hard at all. Ginso Tree in particular is only mildly challengeing when you aim to collect every extra along the way.

I was a bit unclear, yeah it doesn't save every 10 seconds, that would be horrible. But it bascially does replicate every 10 seconds of progress approximately, because these invisible barriers are so close to eachother it isn't much different than playing Blind Forest with abusing the sh*t out of the manual save feature. But at least Blind Forest allows me not to exploit the save feature to an degree i'm not comfortable with, Will of the Wisps doesn't leave me that choice.

(oh and it can't be barriers exactly, because sometimes you even spawn ahead of the place you've died)

I believe Ginso Tree was hard because many people relied too much on the save feature and weren't accustomed to play consistently good for a minute this moment.
I think there is enough time in the game that allows you to accustom to the bash. The 2 rooms you have to clear for the heart, requires some advanced knowledge of it, you would't make it that far if you haven't mastered the bash. It's not a complicated feature. I believe 10 minutes of Tutorial are enough.

[Mawi]

Originally posted by Stretchyf:

Personally, I find Ori Blind Forest more challenging than Ori Will of the Wisps.

On normal difficulty you can tank through obstacles in Ori Will of the Wisps and Escapes in Ori WotW are more bark than bite. The only thing that might seem difficult compared to Blind Forest are the fights and bosses. But people who are used to hack and slash combat will find it not challenging in Ori Wotw. So, in my opinion, Ori Wotw is easier and more casual than Ori BF.

Those are good points. In BF if you take a damage, you take a lot as the health orbs are consumed as whole. In WotW (atleast in the beginning) you can take a bit more before the one orb is gone.
Yeah, WotW feels more like battle action based than BF, which is not my favorite thing (as atm I feel a bit bored with the hack and slash consept), but WotW probably has enough exploration and jump puzzles to keep me interested :)

[Mako]

Originally posted by Mawi:

I don't think closer checkpoints remove challenge in BF. The game gets harder towards the end (there are more parts you have to do exactly right to progress) and I really appreciated the fact that I can place checkpoint sometimes in middle of the hard part (I think Folorn ruins were pretty hard to me atleast. Mt Horu was challenging, but easier as I changed to controller before that).

Let me reiterate.
With manual checkpoints player is free to reduce difficulty when he wants, by breaking long and hard sections into smaller and more managable challenges.
But then comes Ginso Tree escape in which you cant place any checkpoints for a minute or so. It doesnt ask player to do anything particularly hard, its actually easier than some sections of the same tree before the escape. But the lack of saves makes all the difference because most players wont be ready for this.
They did the same thing on a smaller scale in Mount Horu (before final escape) by marking a lot of places "unsafe" and therefore unfit to place manual checkpoints. But you can totally abuse saves earlier in Sorrow Path for example.

Manual saves is a nice system on paper but its directly responsible for sudden difficulty spikes in BF.
Pre-placed checkpoints give more control to developers over difficulty and its progression.
In my opinion Wisps IS harder, but it FEELS easier because it does a better job teaching player and ramping up challenge gradually. This becomes obvious after going back to BF from Wisps.

[Mawi]

So, by hearing some answers, yes and no, about if the game is harder and seems like hard is subjective :). Thanks for all for your perspectives, I kinda now know what kind of experience to expect.

(Now I just have to fix something, as the sound makes sometimes some weird electric sounds)