This game has way too many checkpoints

[Chocos Ramabotti]

Makes it overall too easy imo. I know this game is mainly targeted to casual gamers who never played an plattformer before, but could they at least remove some checkpoints on the hard difficutly? Everytime I die I teleport myself back on the last spirit well on purpose. It's not so much Hollow Knight than I thought, without any throwback the risk of dying is nonexistent and then the game plays on itself.

[Nope]

Agree I rather have the good old save point from blind forest

[Medicles]

Does it matter though? The game isnt really difficult as it is. I recently scrapped my normal game to start a hard difficulty one and literally nothing changed. I believe the only real change is enemies doing more damage and stuff costs more spirit light. You still do the same damage and enemies still have the same hp. Hard difficulty is basically just "dont get hit and its like normal, possibly even easy".

I guess the only real challenge is to not get hit in any way and that would mean you dont need any checkpoints anywhere, so eventually its pointless to change the current checkpoint system anyway.

[Chocos Ramabotti]

Originally posted by Medicles:

Does it matter though? The game isnt really difficult as it is. I recently scrapped my normal game to start a hard difficulty one and literally nothing changed. I believe the only real change is enemies doing more damage and stuff costs more spirit light. You still do the same damage and enemies still have the same hp. Hard difficulty is basically just "dont get hit and its like normal, possibly even easy".

I guess the only real challenge is to not get hit in any way and that would mean you dont need any checkpoints anywhere, so eventually its pointless to change the current checkpoint system anyway.

yeah the game is asides from the fight shrines way easier than the first game but it still ocassionally happens that I die and then I almost immediately restart on the same positon I died or even further ahead(!), admist all sorts of enemies. Feels kinda lame. I think Metroidvanias need a good amount of manual savepoints/checkpoints with the possibility to unlock shortcuts. Otherwise exploring is not dangerous and feels almost like a walking and jumping simulator.

Imagine playing super metroid where you restart one the same room when you die, laaaame.

[Medicles]

Originally posted by Chocos Ramabotti:

yeah the game is asides from the fight shrines way easier than the first game but it still ocassionally happens that I die and then I almost immediately restart on the same positon I died or even further ahead(!), admist all sorts of enemies. Feels kinda lame. I think Metroidvanias need a good amount of manual savepoints/checkpoints with the possibility to unlock shortcuts. Otherwise exploring is not dangerous and feels almost like a walking and jumping simulator.

Imagine playing super metroid where you restart one the same room when you die, laaaame.

I do understand your point, but i think Ori has another focus than simply exploring. In my perspective, Ori games are eventually just about quickly running through the game with the most efficient use of the abilities. Enemies and bosses are a joke in this game, difficulty wise, so they are obviously not the main focus of the game or play a significant part like in Hollow Knight.

Exploring is also negligible. The game is pretty straight forward, even if you dont buy the maps. The secrets are the only reward for exploring and these arent a must-have either.

What i want to say is simple, Ori is a speedrun game by heart but a casual game in general. So i think it can stay as it is.

[AtomHeartDragon]

This game would be better with soul-link mechanism like the original.

It allowed being stingy with the saves without the typical sparse checkpoint BS that forces player to rerun significant parts of the game if they have to quit in a wrong place.

[Chocos Ramabotti]

Originally posted by Medicles:

Originally posted by Chocos Ramabotti:

yeah the game is asides from the fight shrines way easier than the first game but it still ocassionally happens that I die and then I almost immediately restart on the same positon I died or even further ahead(!), admist all sorts of enemies. Feels kinda lame. I think Metroidvanias need a good amount of manual savepoints/checkpoints with the possibility to unlock shortcuts. Otherwise exploring is not dangerous and feels almost like a walking and jumping simulator.

Imagine playing super metroid where you restart one the same room when you die, laaaame.

I do understand your point, but i think Ori has another focus than simply exploring. In my perspective, Ori games are eventually just about quickly running through the game with the most efficient use of the abilities. Enemies and bosses are a joke in this game, difficulty wise, so they are obviously not the main focus of the game or play a significant part like in Hollow Knight.

Exploring is also negligible. The game is pretty straight forward, even if you dont buy the maps. The secrets are the only reward for exploring and these arent a must-have either.

What i want to say is simple, Ori is a speedrun game by heart but a casual game in general. So i think it can stay as it is.

But speedrunning involves to know the game and all it ins and outs which means that the first playthrough will be always very easy and boring. There are many games who can be both, worthy for speedruns AND challenging or at least they offer the option to make it challenging. It just looks like a speedrun game since the controls are so fine. But this is because the developers take much value in polishing controls. If this truly would be an speedrun game, there would be no quests, or cutscenes or unnecessary collectibles and whatsoever.

[Stretchyf]

Originally posted by Nope:

Agree I rather have the good old save point from blind forest

Originally posted by AtomHeartDragon:

This game would be better with soul-link mechanism like the original.

Yes, I too liked the save system from Blind Forest more. Now I'm just trying not to die as much as possible - it is compelling way to do things in game for me. Also prevents you from rushing through the game straight to the final.

[Medicles]

Originally posted by Chocos Ramabotti:

But speedrunning involves to know the game and all it ins and outs which means that the first playthrough will be always very easy and boring. There are many games who can be both, worthy for speedruns AND challenging or at least they offer the option to make it challenging. It just looks like a speedrun game since the controls are so fine. But this is because the developers take much value in polishing controls. If this truly would be an speedrun game, there would be no quests, or cutscenes or unnecessary collectibles and whatsoever.

Thats why i said its a speedrun game by heart but a casual game in general. Casuals do not speedrun, but they need something to be entertained with. All the skills you can buy and all the shards that exists + upgrades are not needed to complete the game. You dont even need to speak to the vast majority of npcs or do any of the sidequests.

I mean, how exactly would the game be more challenging if you just spawn further away after a death? You have already managed the way up to the point you died, so wouldnt it be more plausible to directly try the part where you died instead of running the same way you already managed up to the point you died until you can try again?

[Aru]

Old save system was atrocious. This time around I can truly enjoy platforming.

[Chocos Ramabotti]

Originally posted by Medicles:

I mean, how exactly would the game be more challenging if you just spawn further away after a death? You have already managed the way up to the point you died, so wouldnt it be more plausible to directly try the part where you died instead of running the same way you already managed up to the point you died until you can try again?

Well you see already an example of what I mean when you look at the escape sequences, the game doesn't let you revive from the point where you died. Why? Because it's one single dynamic challenge.
The same goes for many different plattforming segments. for example at the watermill on the left most section on the map there is a rather challenging gauntlet, where you have to maneuver with the grapple hook through thorny vines, it's not so easy and you have perform your timing well. But there is one single plattform after 3-4 jumps for a quick refresher, you're still in that thorny gauntlet, just on a plattform, but the game immediately saves at this plattform. So actually now you simply need to beat only half of the gauntlet anymore. Playing good is one thing, but playing good for a longer amount of time takes concentration, which can be taxing the longer you have to keep your concentration. Ori only demands concentration on boss fights and chase sequences (and the one sequence on the desert with the raven), on every other ocassions you can basically bruteforce through the gameplay.
Another point is ressource management, i'm not sure but it looks like after you revive there is a minimum amount of life you gain, so these checkpoints actually make two individual parts of an challenge easier, by granting you automatically more room of error until you respawn.

The game doesn't need to be hardcore but in it's current form it's way too lenient so that no tension builds up, since concentration also doesn't build up

[Kleerex]

Not every game needs to be like Dark Souls. I very much appreciate frequent autosaves and not having to spam manual saves whenever possible.

[Chocos Ramabotti]

Originally posted by Sheogorath:

Not every game needs to be like Dark Souls. I very much appreciate frequent autosaves and not having to spam manual saves whenever possible.

yeah you're probably not playing on hard difficulty so let the people who enjoy challenging plattformers there fun in hard difficulty. I mean there is a reason why they choose that. The other difficulties are already catered to you. And indeed manual saving can be annoying too if it's allowed too often. But at least on this I can decide for my own checkpoints even when I basically could savescum myself through the game.

[Null]

Originally posted by Sheogorath:

Not every game needs to be like Dark Souls. I very much appreciate frequent autosaves and not having to spam manual saves whenever possible.

Stop using Dark Souls as your metric for a hard game, it makes you look like a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ tool.

[TheForestSpirit]

This I can agree on but at the same time it doesn't bother me that much. Still though that said I preferred the save system in Blind Forest by a mile as you had complete control of saving, here you don't.