Ori and the Will of the Wisps

Ori and the Will of the Wisps

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Icirian Mar 12, 2020 @ 11:00pm
Inconsistency regarding the Owls?
So from the blind forest, we know that light is harmful to owls, so how is there a whole community of them on Niwen? Also, apparently the owls need light to be hatched/develop properly? seeing how deformed Shriek is. Or is there more to a owl's life cycle that we don't know yet?
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DF Mar 12, 2020 @ 11:03pm 
I don't think they need light per se, they just can't be kept without the light energy or energy fading. However, there might be more owl species in the world and not all of them are allergic to light.

There are some species in our reality which are more active in light than others.
Last edited by DF; Mar 12, 2020 @ 11:04pm
RojoHero Mar 12, 2020 @ 11:08pm 
I was wondering about this too... There seems to be something of a retcon going on. So ok... Ku was still an egg when she was hit by the light... she survived but that's why her wing is deformed. The light IS harmful to her. Well... until it isn't...

Ku gets revived by one of the wisps similarly to how Ori was revived by the spirit tree. They were dead or at the very least at the brink of death... now they are not. It's fine that the wisp could only barely bring her back as it was just 1 small fragment compared to the all powerful Spirit Tree who used the last of its energy to save Ori. What I don't understand... is why Ku is not harmed by any of this. It's established that light is needed for life, but Ku, the daughter of Kuro, is a dark owl. The light hurts them and literally killed every member of her family (save for her father we know nothing about). Yet, Ku is not only brought back from the brink by the light... but it completely healed! Not a scratch on her!

I dunno... I think they may have had to rewrite the story somewhere and streams got crossed.
DF Mar 12, 2020 @ 11:16pm 
Originally posted by RojoHero:
I was wondering about this too... There seems to be something of a retcon going on. So ok... Ku was still an egg when she was hit by the light... she survived but that's why her wing is deformed. The light IS harmful to her. Well... until it isn't...

Ku gets revived by one of the wisps similarly to how Ori was revived by the spirit tree. They were dead or at the very least at the brink of death... now they are not. It's fine that the wisp could only barely bring her back as it was just 1 small fragment compared to the all powerful Spirit Tree who used the last of its energy to save Ori. What I don't understand... is why Ku is not harmed by any of this. It's established that light is needed for life, but Ku, the daughter of Kuro, is a dark owl. The light hurts them and literally killed every member of her family (save for her father we know nothing about). Yet, Ku is not only brought back from the brink by the light... but it completely healed! Not a scratch on her!

I dunno... I think they may have had to rewrite the story somewhere and streams got crossed.

I agree with your points regarding Ku, we don't know what kind of light Niwen provides. Regarding the fact that Shriek can survive multiple light defense maneuvers during the game and still live long enough to fight Ori.
Fortuna Mar 12, 2020 @ 11:27pm 
I think the big thing to take note of, with how the light and owls interacted in the first game, is that the light that killed the hatchlings and Kuro was an extreme amount of light. The spirit tree "set the sky ablaze" when it called to Ori, and doing so for so long was too much for the little owls to live through. They were probably too young, since Kuro flies back to them through it and it doesn't seem to hurt her. But when she returns the light in the ending, Kuro is right next to the light when it again sets the sky ablaze to fix the wrongs in the forest, and can't withstand it.

Ku not being harmed is probably a side-effect of having been so close to Ori. She basically grew up with the light, and was touched by it before she hatched. That might be why the light could heal her during the ending.

I also don't think that the owl's eggs needed light to hatch, so much as the area where they lived, the Silent Forest, was hit hardest by the Decay. Shriek being deformed could just be because her egg was warped by the Decay, but she was close enough to hatching that she managed to break out of her egg before it completely turned to stone.
Last edited by Fortuna; Mar 12, 2020 @ 11:28pm
RojoHero Mar 12, 2020 @ 11:29pm 
We know that Kuro was able to survive peacefully in Nibel without any problems, so just being around the light isn't the issue... it's being directly exposed to the light that causes harm to them. Of which Ku gets plenty of over the course of the game.

As far as Shriek is concerned... she brings more questions too but moreso in regard to the decay than the light. She was born exposed to the decay... that's why she is deformed and part of her is stone. She was rejected by everything and everyone... truely alone. Unlike Kuro, Shriek never knew love. Shriek is afraid of being vulnerable and that's why she refuses to accept change... opting to try and stop Ori from restoring the forest. In her final moments she seeks comfort in the only thing she ever knew... ashes and bone. So she's pretty well wrapped up... but the decay itself is not. It is assumed that the decay takes place wherever there is an absence of light. Happened in both Nibel and Niwen albeit under different circumstances. Light is required for life.

A Moki goes to the Silent Forest and is petrified in mere moments. The Howler suffered the same fate... Shriek spends all of her time here and yet seems to be immune to the decay. Is she immune to it because of her birth? If that's so then does life require light or will life simply find a way? How does the Decay work? Is darkness a force much like Light? If so... why did the dark owls become petrified when they are creatures of dark? Is the Decay something else entirely?
AtomHeartDragon Mar 26, 2020 @ 10:42am 
My thoughts on the subject:
Originally posted by AtomHeartDragon:
Regarding the owls:

Back when we only had trailers I was (obviously) speculating about the things we've seen there.

One of my wild guesses regarding massive owl cemetery was that there was some conflict that erupted between the owls and the Willow, leading to the demise of both (a bit similar to Blind Forest but with worse outcome for everyone) - coincidentally this would make for (IMO) better (and even more tragic) backstory for Shriek than bullied->bad. It would also preserve the themes from the original games (the one about light and dark dichotomy not being just good and evil).
This kind of scenario would also have little trouble explaining why Seir shattered and why no one was prepared for that.

Alternatively something else could have doomed both the tree and the birds.

A huge number of massive badass owls just getting instakilled by the decay makes little sense - surely it's not that fast based on what we've seen.
It really does stink of a retcon.

https://steamcommunity.com/app/1057090/discussions/0/2149846789262256937/
RCMidas Mar 26, 2020 @ 1:53pm 
Remember how the Definitive Edition showed us child-Naru playing with two of Nibel's spirits, including using a Light Burst ball AS a ball? The lightless creatures of the world, such as Nibel's Owls and Naru's folk, are harmed by too much or too intense light - its mere presence is not itself destructive to them.

Kuro was old enough and strong enough to fly into the same light that killed her chicks without suffering perhaps more than the slightest of injuries, and then assaulted the Spirit Tree directly whilst it was still blazing with Spirit Light. Now some of that resilience might have been bestowed by the sheer inexpressible RAGE of seeing her chicks dead, providing something of a shield whilst in her vengeful fury.

Quite what happened to the Niwen Owls with the Decay is unknown. Certainly the Decay *can* be seen to be extremely fast - we see petrified animals frozen in mid-movement for instance, and that unfortunate Moki father succumbed very quickly too - but not everything fails at the same speed.

It may also be that when the Spirit Willow "died" and Seir shattered, inducing the Decay, there was a similar explosion of Spirit Light as when Ori was lost in Nibel. Perhaps it was enough to weaken the Niwen Owls - many of them, like Shriek's own parents, seem to have been aware of the danger and are shielding their nests - and when the Decay set in, they just happened to be the first and quickest to perish.

Note: not all the Owls died at once. Shriek was able to hatch and go wandering around in search of others, after having already been touched by the Decay, and was driven off by adult Owls - presumably as fearful for their chicks as Naru's father was when he saw her playing with two spirits and their Light Burst ball. They succumbed later.

The reason the Luma Pools are still so vibrant is expressly stated to be because the Strength Wisp fell there, with much of the power of the Spirit Willow contained within; and similarly Kwolok has kept much of the Decay back from his territory through sheer force of will.

Everywhere else has fallen extremely rapidly - the Gorlek domain was basically outright destroyed and reduced to so much sand, and even Baur's Reach was encased in endless winter. Infusions of almost-Gumon artifice, harnessing the power of heat and Spirit Light, are needed to provide even localised temperate effects.

Note that the Mouldwood Depths, though clearly home to a lightless species, are not entirely fallen to Decay. Part of that may well be that Mora helped to fight against it by sealing the way in, and by being protected against the theoretical explosion of Spirit Light the way the Owls weren't through the simple virtue of being underground - but as a lightless creature, she was not strong enough to keep her domain as healthy as Kwolok was able to.

So, another question: given that we see many creatures succumb to the petrifying power of Decay, what makes certain exceptions exist? Some Kii endure despite even Ancestor Trees failing. Lightless creatures abound in the Silent Woods when you revisit it - perhaps they are trying to make a home here and do not understand that it means their eventual death - and Shriek herself hunts them if they disturb the silence.

Come to think of it, we only see the Howl dead as it is trying to struggle out of the corrupted sludge and after Shriek goes to investigate its noise. Perhaps the Howl was weakened by the Decay-infused sludge and then finished off by Shriek as it desperately tried to pull itself free onto dry land. I am not entirely sure it is that so terrible and mighty a creature in general, to be honest.

Remember, the Howl was only truly terrifying to the Moki and to the new-arrived Ori, who drove off the Howl with a simple flaming brand. I would hesitate to argue that the Ori who battles ANY of Mora, Enslaved!Kwolok, and Shriek would be even remotely phased by Howl in a rematch. Several of the corrupted Gorleks you encounter near the end of the game are stronger and more resilient by any measure.

What does that mean for Shriek at the end of the game? Your guess is as good as mine. I believe a combination of her physical and emotional injuries - the latter only worsened by seeing Ori stopping Seir from blasting her again, despite how often she tried to kill Ori - finally took from her the strength to keep fighting the Decay. She curled up beneath her parents in pain and confusion and grief, and let herself follow them into oblivion.
RCMidas Mar 26, 2020 @ 2:37pm 
TL;DR for the above:

Decay itself seems to be inconsistent. It is a breakdown of order and therefore barely even obeys its own rules. This means that the devs can have it do whatever it needs to in order to have the plot work.
Last edited by RCMidas; Mar 26, 2020 @ 2:38pm
mvon007 Mar 26, 2020 @ 7:24pm 
Originally posted by Fortuna:
I think the big thing to take note of, with how the light and owls interacted in the first game, is that the light that killed the hatchlings and Kuro was an extreme amount of light. The spirit tree "set the sky ablaze" when it called to Ori, and doing so for so long was too much for the little owls to live through. They were probably too young, since Kuro flies back to them through it and it doesn't seem to hurt her. But when she returns the light in the ending, Kuro is right next to the light when it again sets the sky ablaze to fix the wrongs in the forest, and can't withstand it.

Ku not being harmed is probably a side-effect of having been so close to Ori. She basically grew up with the light, and was touched by it before she hatched. That might be why the light could heal her during the ending.

I also don't think that the owl's eggs needed light to hatch, so much as the area where they lived, the Silent Forest, was hit hardest by the Decay. Shriek being deformed could just be because her egg was warped by the Decay, but she was close enough to hatching that she managed to break out of her egg before it completely turned to stone.

Yeah that was how I thought of it.
some passerby Mar 28, 2020 @ 2:54am 
Unless I missed some dialogue that contradicts me I was under the impression that only 100% light is harmful which is essentially what the spirit tree shot out when searching for Ori. Kuro was able to withstand it whereas her chicks couldn't because of how young they were. Similarly how 100% darkness was harmful to Ori in the Mouldwood depths.
Last edited by some passerby; Mar 28, 2020 @ 2:56am
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Date Posted: Mar 12, 2020 @ 11:00pm
Posts: 10