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Yes, I know a lot of people do like the ending, or are just fine with it, but I would argue that in my opinion, we are pressuring them to do the right thing.
So, in other words, let's all just give up hope and not say anything about it. Of course it won't ever happen if people like you won't step up and say anything.
By taking action we are trying to tell them to overlook what they've done more closely. I mean, have you heard anything from moon about the ending? I have looked everywhere and I haven't
So, maybe by saying "Hey moon, look closer at what you have done", they may actually reconsider the ending and change their opinion.
Yes, I know you all disagree, and this time I know a lot of you will probably start grabbing your chance to tell me why I'm wrong like flies. But really, a lot of you don't like the ending, and I know what its like. Like we were just discussing, the ending/story made both games hard to play. It just isn't the same. Now, a lot of people wouldn't agree, and that may discourage us, but maybe if we can get them to listen, just maybe, they may look closer. So, why don't we actually step up and do something. Why don't we be heard. Why do we just sit here and discuss what we think instead of taking action? Think about it, why do so little people have our viewpoint on the ending? well, probably because we do little about it. That is also most likely why moon has said little about it. Why don't we try, just try, and we may just get somewhere. We may just make Ori what it once was.
*sigh* go ahead, tell me why I'm wrong, but that won't stop me from trying to step up and say something. Thank you.
Oh yeah, I almost forgot! For anyone else who wants to step up and be heard, here is the link: http://chng.it/W2kPtgpJNr
I'll be suprised if anyone has the courage actually step up and do something instead of complain about it, but I won't give up. Because I know that somewhere out there, there are 12 other people who signed. I know there is hope.
Precept 19, O knight of great renown.
Precept Nineteen: 'If You Try, Succeed'. If you're going to attempt something, make sure you achieve it. If you do not succeed, then you have actually failed! Avoid this at all costs.
Why thank you very much. I am trying very hard to make sure we succeed, and I am avoiding failing at all costs. I believe that we can achieve something if we don't give up. That is very nice of you to notice that.
It's really not about courage (doesn't take much to sign an online petition ;) ). Many people liked the ending, so they will obviously not sign. Also quite a few who disliked it, but don't want to force them to change it. I for one loved it. The ending was exactly right. Uplifting, with a bittersweet note. I thought it was beautiful.
They had will to amend the story a bit to let Ku live but... I see it as a rough patch that only raised new unnecessary questions and made the story more disjointed. Also I see some new cutscenes were made hastily and look bad to my taste. It seems as not an easy task to correct the story this late, when the game is already finished or was close to be finished.
So all I said in this thread was me criticizing their approach to writing the story and in my view it can be amended only by making a new game from ground up. Basically I say, that I do not like this project because of storytelling and I'm not looking forward to buy any more games by Moon Studios because I'm dissatisfied with how they treat this side of game-making.
Another thing is - it looks most players do not care "because storytelling is not the strength of metroidvanias". Some even claim that they like it as is and do not want even minor changes - I treat it as trolling but anyway. While my opinion is that story is objectively bad and there was no persistent effort to write a good story, when you make a game to sell opinion of the majority of players is what counts. And it looks numbers are not on our side sadly. Most players are not this finicky and play a lot of games to care much about one of them.
Going back to that petition, what I would like to see instead is having people to voice out loud that story is bad and therefore won't buy their next game. Hopefully that, along with reaching over 2000 posts, is enough as a wake up call for Moon Studios for their next game. They would need to keep the story simple, or if wanting to develop a good story, it HAS to be good. Unfortunately as you said since majority "don't care" I admit I have some doubt whether they take it as a lesson and at risk repeating the same issue.
This sounds a bit silly but I am awaiting for someone to make a youtube video of this game's story analysis and further raising awareness, not to change this ending but to avoid stuffing up again for their next game.
Well I don't care how hard moon tries to cover up what they did in wotw by making a different universe and making that one have a good story/ending, I certainly will not play anymore of Moon's games unless they fix wotw.
You make it sound like there are only two options - either you dislike the story or you don't care (since people who like it are trolling). I don't think that's quite fair. Your opinion is absolutely valid, of course. But so is mine. I have explained why I like the story numerous times.
Regarding your first sentence - it's not what I and others said. I said that because it is a metroidvania game, for me personally the focus is on the gameplay first and foremost. That statement alone does not say anything about the quality of the story. It also doesn't say that I don't care about the story or anything like that. I also said that because it is a 20 hour metroidvania game with the vast majority of time being spent on gameplay, you can't necessarily expect to get the same level of depth as you perhaps get in a 200h RPG. Meaning, not every little bit of the story has to be explained in detail. Just like you can't expect the same depth of a Lord of the Rings in a 50 page short story. Many of what people here call ouf as plotholes is not easily picked up during playing, but afterwards, when they start with the fact that they disliked the ending and then think about the story for weeks, suddenly finding more and more so-called plotholes. I really get the feeling some people here are actively looking for aspects they don't like, when the one thing they disliked at first was Ori "dying" (this does not address everyone in here, but we had quite a few posts flat out saying their main or only criticism is that Ori didn't get the happy ending they wanted).
I agree with you on the Ku thing. It probably would have been beneficial for the story to let Ku die. At least I would have found it interesting to see how the story would have worked then. Would have made the story a lot grimmer, darker, which I would have liked. And it would have dealt with the motivation confusion some people experience here ("Are we saving Niwen? I thought we were saving Ku!"). I personally don't have that confusion. I don't see the problem with the main motivation shifting/expanding midgame. This is not a new concept and seen before in countless stories where nobody had a problem with it. Protagonist initially has a rather small goal (like saving his friend). Protagonist sees the suffering around him. Protagonist realizes he needs to save the world. Not a long shot by any stretch. Especially when caring for the world is something that is his inherent nature, as we learned throughout the whole game and the one before.
I still consider people liking the story just had "it worked for me" experience and were not thinking much about it while playing.
To tell long story short it worked for you and you do not see any major deficiencies. That is fine. You had nice gameplaying experience. I said earlier that I have nothing against people who enjoy playing the game. But it not worked for me and for quite a few people more.
Yes, not everyone. I get the general idea of the ending and was ready to accept it if I was led to it "properly". All my issues with the story were not so much with the ending itself but how this ending was brought on me. Probably I have no issues with the ending itself because I just do not believe in this ending.
The whole story was a bumpy ride but I was ready to omit a lot of things. Ku had wing damaged and we need to get any idea why. I got any idea only here in the thread and not through game itself. Ori riding Ku - also have no idea why. One of my friends explained it to me - see, Ori was very invested in helping Ku so wanted to see the result firsthand. Rational part in me says that Ori shouldn't ride Ku at all and this trick made me feel barely hidden plot device. Overall silliness of the prologue part dejected me. Gumo hammering a middle of a wooden stick? Really? Ku smaller than Ori at hatching while the egg is of the size of Naru? Why?
But then came the improvement. Actual gameplay payed off. I liked to be weak and fragile and lost in the thunderstorm. Also find this idea with a torch as improvised weapon a good one. But again - Howl was a joke. And I hated new characters that were looking like they have real prototypes (Tokk, Opher), unlike Naru and Gumo. They seemed not to be a part of this universe. And what is worse - they were following me everywhere! Actually Naru and Gumo also felt wrong in this game: Gumo has blurry textures and Naru has weird 3D mouth. Why it is all this unpolished? It strikes me right in the eye! But "ok, stop being nitpicky and play" I said to myself. Let's see what good this game has to offer.
But trading with spirit light - what a terrible idea, trading... in Ori game... with spirit light! Why traders have goods usable only to a spirit if there was no spirits around for decades? Shards that are making game harder... really? Gave me sandbox game vibes and I was not expecting this. But overall greater ease with which you can sequence break the game was not affecting me. Liked very much to shoot at blue orbs with Spirit Arc. Very nice gameplay idea, but localized only to a small part of the game right after getting this Spirit Arc ability.
Wellspring looked weird. How this thing can be integral part of Niwen's water system? It is about to collapse from old age, rot and lack of maintenance! It is water driving the mill in real life and not otherwise! And who built it? So many questions. But I liked the gameplay very much. Still hated Opher following me and talking nonsense occasionally. And you see this kind of gameplay in Ori BF development videos - so they were reusing old ideas rejected for BF... as with the ending. But it turned out rather nicely, better than I was expecting.
Silent Woods were ok, terrifying as it should. Have no idea how they got 6+ age rating for the game with this. Especially with Shriek gnawing on her prey. Shriek stomping Ku felt just wrong though. And initial confusion whether Ku died or not was not a coincidence as I learned later.
Then I went to Windswept Wastes cuz it was said that one of the wisps is there. It was kinda challenging to explore Windswept Wastes this early and I left empty-handed, which shouldn't surprise players familiar with the game. But Burrow ability was useful in Baur's Reach and Luma Pools. I appreciated the effort put into making gameplay more varied, more diverse with these different environments. It felt good in BF too.
Next highlight was Mouldwound Depths. Kinda depressing and horrifying, but unique and new for Ori game. Conducted some exploration carefully, without haste. I enjoyed it. But Lupo, here... why? Mouldwood Depths were sealed by Kwolok, right? How the hell he is here faster than you? Mora turned friendly instead of dying was a twist. It is the only boss in game that not dies. Foolish maybe, but we know that Ori is kind (know by playing BF). So it rather felt "like Ori" unlike most of the game. Another "like Ori" moment was Sandworm before patches. Finally a challenging escape! I found myself wanting something like this badly in Ori game.
Had nothing bad to say about Baur's Reach. Some Half-Life vibes but who cares if it is interesting. Find it fun how local creatures can swallow and release Ori as if Ori is very uncommon thing to them, not their regular prey item. People say even a shark can bite a man and release instantly realizing that it is not what it usually eats. But the injury will still be terrible. So this kind of behavior looked natural to me. But again, omnipresent Shriek and easy escape sequence.
Next was Luma Pools. Great idea to have paradise island in overall dark and gloomy world. Having water dash made you feel yourself extremely agile and powerful. I was enjoying just swimming around. But Kwolok dying to tell you that things cannot be the same? Again a naked plot device, especially after Mora. And it was after Mora for me.
So game was going unevenly for me with highlights and downsides but overall impression was rather good. But then exposition dump and Seir took a rug out from under my feet and I plainly fell. I stopped understanding what is going on and stopped believing in what I see. We are going to the dead Willow? Why? Why it is the center of decay? What Lupo does here? Maybe this champion can save Niwen then by his own if he is so great to get here unharmed?
I also wanted to see how the story would be with Ku dead. Not because it is dark - I think good story should "interleave" gloomy and hopeful moments and not be just dark. And yes, it should address the main issue I had with the story - we were going to Willow without explanation. The issue is not as with changing the aim itself as with nothing made to let player see this change. Some assumed that restoring light would be nice thing to do (as you), others expected to take Ku and fly to Nibel. Storytelling made only vague hints that Niwenians need your help and your actions made some tectonic shifts so status quo is not possible anymore. So some resolution is needed. Still the ending looked unnatural, slapped on the story without building enough connections and having happy faces glued on top of it. It was so much contrary to what I felt and game was pumping and pumping this on me - it felt terrible.
So many questions stay unanswered even now.
Where did the decay come from?
What is the corruption?
What are the Spirits exactly and the tree?
Is there no origin to the whole thing?
I love lore so much as well as a good story but sadly this game seems to be missing alot of it in that regards.
The idea alone that Ori is in some way gone makes me sad... from a being that had legs and arms to move around suddenly becomes a rooted tree whom seems to even have very limited ways, if anything at all, to communicate.