What's wrong with Terraria being a wiki game?

[pasta864]

I always hear people say that Terraria is a wiki game like it's a bad thing but imo it really isn't, it just means that you need documentation to get into certain aspects of the game which I don't think is weird nor bad.

[AguardaSol]

figuring out the dps statchecks like skeletron (have to kill hands before dealing proper damage to the skull, need proper weapons or you are dammed) require a friend or someone to teach you about getting better weapons

[Claret_Leader]

Originally posted by pasta864:

I always hear people say that Terraria is a wiki game like it's a bad thing but imo it really isn't, it just means that you need documentation to get into certain aspects of the game which I don't think is weird nor bad.

It's too much effort if you're not 'that' interested in the game and are only playing very casually, it's kind of how I feel about don't starve together... I've played around 55 hours but I still feel lost and can't be bothered researching the wiki because it's not really my type of game. It's not a bad per say, and it's probably something I'll go back to in the future, but there are things I would rather play right now.

[th]

Well, it's psychology. Figuratively speaking: simple for noobs, hardcore for chads. It's not bad nor wrong. It's just a matter of taste. On the other hand simple is natural so there are simply more people who like it simple.

[Z]

You can play without wiki and ask most things to the Guide.
If you want to rush the game, you will need a wiki or someone who knows about the game.
If you are not in a hurry, you won't need a wiki at all.

[pasta864]

Originally posted by Z:

You can play without wiki and ask most things to the Guide.
If you want to rush the game, you will need a wiki or someone who knows about the game.
If you are not in a hurry, you won't need a wiki at all.

You are right. I'd argue Minecraft has more need of documentation. How the heck are you supposed to know that a nether portal needs to be lit up to activate it if you don't know anything about the game?

[Snepderg]

Originally posted by pasta864:

Originally posted by Z:

You can play without wiki and ask most things to the Guide.
If you want to rush the game, you will need a wiki or someone who knows about the game.
If you are not in a hurry, you won't need a wiki at all.

You are right. I'd argue Minecraft has more need of documentation. How the heck are you supposed to know that a nether portal needs to be lit up to activate it if you don't know anything about the game?

I think advancements give hints? Also Minecraft has the crafting book now, similar to the Guide except based on what you've already crafted.

I feel the need to mention that Minecraft's original philosophy was just that - not holding your hand. It's up to you to decide what you want to do. The End was added if I remember correctly because people wanted an ending. Nowadays though, people experienced with the game tend to head straight for the dragon, kill it, then continue doing whatever they want.

[th]

Originally posted by Z:

You can play without wiki and ask most things to the Guide.
If you want to rush the game, you will need a wiki or someone who knows about the game.
If you are not in a hurry, you won't need a wiki at all.

You can play slowly using wiki too. The use of wiki doesn't mean that such gamer always rushes.

[th]

The topic itself is pretty fundamental as I see it. Maybe I can expand this a little deeper than usual.

There is that ancient holywar among us gamers, not just terrarians, but any gamers. What is skill?

Most of the gamers (and I think they are totally wrong) usually give the simplest possible definition of skill: skill is just reflexes and muscle memory, basically that's all.

But that definition obviously lacks a huge part. The knowledge. Not every game is based on muscle memory only. There are A LOT of games, very famous, very popular, very financially successful games where it is hard or even impossible to play without the vast and detailed knowledge about that game.

Before (for example Ragnarok Online in 2002) there were no wikis. At all. Gamers shared their personal knowledge of the game among each other, among friends they played that game with. Some time later they started to appear. Initially they were simple sites for like couple of screens of text with the most important formulas and descriptions. I myself clearly remember one such ancient site about Ragnarok Online.

So the personal knowledge of the game was an essential and very natural part of what we call skill. You can not do much in the game without it. That is why.

Now we have wikis. Approach like industrial standardization is here now. Documentation is crucial. We document. It simplifies the process A LOT.

So now that part (the knowledge) of definition of skill is not that important anymore. You always can read most of what you need in wikis. Still there are things which even wikis don't document. Very sublime, very particular things, a lot of them, without which you can not be "a pro" in the game. So it's still important anyway.

And in the end I still repeat one more time. It's not bad nor wrong. Some games need good wikis, some not so much. It's just a matter of taste and a genre of a particular game. Terraria is a wiki game. And for Terraria it is a good thing.

[pasta864]

Originally posted by Snepderg:

Originally posted by pasta864:

You are right. I'd argue Minecraft has more need of documentation. How the heck are you supposed to know that a nether portal needs to be lit up to activate it if you don't know anything about the game?

I think advancements give hints? Also Minecraft has the crafting book now, similar to the Guide except based on what you've already crafted.

I feel the need to mention that Minecraft's original philosophy was just that - not holding your hand. It's up to you to decide what you want to do. The End was added if I remember correctly because people wanted an ending. Nowadays though, people experienced with the game tend to head straight for the dragon, kill it, then continue doing whatever they want.

The crafting book is for recipes. You wouldn't find a "Use Flint and Steel on the Nether portal." Minecraft isn't fully meant to be finished, but they could make an ancient tome that randomly generates in chests that tells you how to reach the Nether in an immersive way.

[Arc]

I played through this basically blind originally with no issue at all. Even the Wall of Flesh, the one thing that doesn't boil down to "take an item to guide and see what he says", spawned completely by accident out of nowhere.
Calling it a wiki game is just lying, there's literally an in-game cheat sheet npc

[Бахич]

Я не понимаю что тут написано хехехе

[Top Gun]

Originally posted by Arc:

I played through this basically blind originally with no issue at all. Even the Wall of Flesh, the one thing that doesn't boil down to "take an item to guide and see what he says", spawned completely by accident out of nowhere.
Calling it a wiki game is just lying, there's literally an in-game cheat sheet npc

Yeah, I think those of us who have played for a while and are used to having the wiki open to look up in-depth technical minutiae can easily overlook how useful the Guide is for new players. The hints he gives throughout a playthrough are much more comprehensive than they were when I started playing, and having him list every single item that can be crafted from a given material--and where to do it--is massive. Over 1500 hours of playtime and I still use his crafting option on a regular basis.

If there's one major area where I think the game could be improved for new players, it's housing, especially regarding the Guide. The housing system is esoteric at best if you're not used to it (and even if you are there are still weird edge cases), and I don't think the Guide's description does enough to make it clear how background walls work. But more importantly, if the Guide dies before a player has figured out how to build a house, then he won't respawn, and they're screwed. I think a simple suggestion would be to allow the Guide to respawn even without valid housing, at least until he's first assigned to a house, so that new players don't fall into that trap.

[wcc]

Originally posted by Arc:

I played through this basically blind originally with no issue at all. Even the Wall of Flesh, the one thing that doesn't boil down to "take an item to guide and see what he says", spawned completely by accident out of nowhere.
Calling it a wiki game is just lying, there's literally an in-game cheat sheet npc

The WoF is probably supposed to be discovered by accident. I think it's rarely unlikely that one doesn't summon one accidentally.
@Topic: I don't think it's a bad thing. Im fine with it being a wiki game since it's not immersion breaking (there's no real immersion in Terraria anyway).

[th]

Originally posted by wcc:

there's no real immersion in Terraria anyway

That I am just totally unable to agree with.

Of course Terraria is very immersive game. The music, the weather, the day-night cycle, the monsters who live by their own rules, the ambient sounds and much much more.

For me it's as immersive as for example Skyrim is. It's a huge part of my fun I get from this game.

[th]

Like I always say: people who don't feel immersion in games like Terraria or Ragnarok Online or HMM3 or Ultima Online - they just don't have imagination. At all. It's a sad truth for them, yes, I know. But this is just fact. No offense plz.