For a melee run, what reforges on my accessories should I proritize?

[The Evil]

Was thinking defense

[di eshor ribly]

Either Warding (+4 defense), Menacing (+4% damage) or Violent (+4% melee speed). It depends on your play style and what weapon you plan to be using.

A full violent reforge with... say a Terra Blade can melt bosses, but it's not going to help much if you're running with a Dao of Pow or other mace.

If you go through the whole process to make a Zenith then you may want a full Menacing set for big nasty damage numbers. The zenith doesn't get speed bonuses.

Extra defense is always a safe bet. Throw on some life regen stuff and thorns and go jump in the mosh pit.

[Azure ☾ ⋆]

Half menacing half violent is objectively superior to full menacing, violent and warding

[OreoKittatup_]

warding is best trust

[Claret_Leader]

Originally posted by Azure:

Half menacing half violent is objectively superior to full menacing, violent and warding

Melee speed only applies to the 'true melee' strike of the sword, i.e. the number of projectiles does not increase no matter how much melee speed you have with the exception of boosts from the weapons modifier, the blade of grass, nights edge, true nights edge, terrablade and I believe the sky dragons fury - so if you're using a weapon such as the daybreak, the flying dragon, shadowflame knife, etc and only deal damage via the projectiles, the stat is completely useless.

A weapons number of attacks per second is based on the decimal use time figure rounded up. In this example we are going to use a weapon with a usetime of 20:

0% melee speed modifiers. 3 attacks per second - rounded to 3

11% melee speed modifiers. 3.33333.. attacks per second - rounded to 3

12% melee speed modifiers. 3.5294 attacks per second - rounded to 4

42% melee speed modifiers. 4.2857 attacks per second - rounded to 4

Note that the gap isn't usually quite as extreme as the weapons attack speed modifier is calculated differently to other boosts from armour, accessories, buffs, etc, and I did not include it in this example.

When you do reach a threshold, your dps can increase massively from weapons that benefit from the boost... but most of the time melee speed will lead to a dps boost of 0. Therefore melee speed should only be considered when you're using one of the weapons which is an exception to this rule (only to where it is still effective), or when facetanking which lets you deal damage via the true melee strikes, not purely relying on projectile damage.

Lucky increases a weapons critical strike chance, but is usually less effective than menacing due to the fact that the damage is calculated after defence is applied. However, melee has a lot more armour piercing than any other class when considering the entire game: sharpening station, ichor flask, etc, therefore offsetting what makes lucky less effective - and so in most cases, whether you're using the shadowflame knife against the mech bosses, or the flying dragon for moon lord, lucky is the most consistent modifier to aim for to achieve the highest dps - even a mix of modifiers is generally very slightly worse, but only by a couple dps; For a class like ranger who's armour piercing isn't as high, a mix of 4 menacing, 3 lucky is generally what's best. That's the figure that I came to myself from in-game testing, as well as calculating the dps of different setups throughout each stage of the game because the difference can literally be a few dps apart, and therefore unnoticeable without that testing. I've also spoken to other people who came to the same conclusion.

But as much as I hate to say it, damage modifiers cannot compare to warding if you want to maximise your chance at beating bosses when a player is struggling - your dps will be made up for by the fact that you can stay alive when taking more hits... every second that you stay alive, you will be dealing more damage which increases in dps cannot compare to; and there is the fact that dps doesn't matter when you're dead. You can take this to an extreme, facetanking, where your survivability is so high that it's practically impossible to die: you can literally stand still, take every hit as a melee and defeat master mode moon lord, or other bosses like plantera and even the destroyer. But of course players aren't restricted from dodging at least some attacks making the strategy that much more overpowered. Other classes can also facetank, even summoner against the master mode empress of light or moon lord.

This even applies to difficulties as high as legendary mode given that projectile damage (other than Projectile NPCs such as the water sphere and burning sphere) are unaffected by the 77.78% damage boost from for the worthy, meaning bosses like moon lord are exactly the same as master mode other than the increase in HP (it is still possible to facetank legendary mode moon lord) - most attacks you are hit by will be projectiles so tanking is generally still effective, unless you are fighting a boss like the brain of Cthulhu who only deals contact damage, in which case increases to defence will not be high enough to make the fight easier, making maximisation of dps optimal for any type of player.

Despite this, I would still recommend damage modifiers because tanking is incredibly brain dead and players will never improve by relying on it. It's like playing on god-mode. Even if you play hardcore, but tank for the entire game, it's not that impressive, it's expected that you should beat the game because there's nearly no risk as you're essentially cheesing every boss/ reducing the damage of general enemy hits to a near unnoticeable level.

[Azure ☾ ⋆]

I'm not reading all that

[Saph]

Originally posted by OreoKittatup_:

warding is best trust

Unironically, yes if you're going for the tankier sets. Even in master mode defence is criminally underrated.

[Claret_Leader]

Originally posted by Azure:

I'm not reading all that

Skill issue, saying something is 'objectively the best' when you don't know what you're talking about and can't be bothered to read other peoples comments, let alone defend what you said, like seriously? Half menacing, half violent, where did that come from?? And you didn't even consider lucky. The take on warding is wild too, I hate the modifier, but it's overpowered.

[Azure ☾ ⋆]

Originally posted by Claret_Leader:

Originally posted by Azure:

I'm not reading all that

Skill issue, saying something is 'objectively the best' when you don't know what you're talking about and can't be bothered to read other peoples comments, let alone defend what you said, like seriously? Half menacing, half violent, where did that come from?? And you didn't even consider lucky. The take on warding is wild too, I hate the modifier, but it's overpowered.

Yes, warding is good, but only if you're playing true melee. Lucky is only good on rangers.

[Claret_Leader]

Originally posted by Azure:

Originally posted by Claret_Leader:

Skill issue, saying something is 'objectively the best' when you don't know what you're talking about and can't be bothered to read other peoples comments, let alone defend what you said, like seriously? Half menacing, half violent, where did that come from?? And you didn't even consider lucky. The take on warding is wild too, I hate the modifier, but it's overpowered.

Yes, warding is good, but only if you're playing true melee. Lucky is only good on rangers.

Every word in that sentence is wrong...

[Azure ☾ ⋆]

WAHHHHH

[dandinks]

Originally posted by Azure:

Originally posted by Claret_Leader:

Skill issue, saying something is 'objectively the best' when you don't know what you're talking about and can't be bothered to read other peoples comments, let alone defend what you said, like seriously? Half menacing, half violent, where did that come from?? And you didn't even consider lucky. The take on warding is wild too, I hate the modifier, but it's overpowered.

Yes, warding is good, but only if you're playing true melee. Lucky is only good on rangers.

Warding is fantastic on every class, even on legendary damage resistance and warding makes a huge difference, the melee helmet strat for the extra defense is still good to this day

[Monkeyboss999]

Originally posted by Claret_Leader:

Originally posted by Azure:

Half menacing half violent is objectively superior to full menacing, violent and warding

Melee speed only applies to the 'true melee' strike of the sword, i.e. the number of projectiles does not increase no matter how much melee speed you have with the exception of boosts from the weapons modifier, the blade of grass, nights edge, true nights edge, terrablade and I believe the sky dragons fury - so if you're using a weapon such as the daybreak, the flying dragon, shadowflame knife, etc and only deal damage via the projectiles, the stat is completely useless.

A weapons number of attacks per second is based on the decimal use time figure rounded up. In this example we are going to use a weapon with a usetime of 20:

0% melee speed modifiers. 3 attacks per second - rounded to 3

11% melee speed modifiers. 3.33333.. attacks per second - rounded to 3

12% melee speed modifiers. 3.5294 attacks per second - rounded to 4

42% melee speed modifiers. 4.2857 attacks per second - rounded to 4

Note that the gap isn't usually quite as extreme as the weapons attack speed modifier is calculated differently to other boosts from armour, accessories, buffs, etc, and I did not include it in this example.

When you do reach a threshold, your dps can increase massively from weapons that benefit from the boost... but most of the time melee speed will lead to a dps boost of 0. Therefore melee speed should only be considered when you're using one of the weapons which is an exception to this rule (only to where it is still effective), or when facetanking which lets you deal damage via the true melee strikes, not purely relying on projectile damage.

Lucky increases a weapons critical strike chance, but is usually less effective than menacing due to the fact that the damage is calculated after defence is applied. However, melee has a lot more armour piercing than any other class when considering the entire game: sharpening station, ichor flask, etc, therefore offsetting what makes lucky less effective - and so in most cases, whether you're using the shadowflame knife against the mech bosses, or the flying dragon for moon lord, lucky is the most consistent modifier to aim for to achieve the highest dps - even a mix of modifiers is generally very slightly worse, but only by a couple dps; For a class like ranger who's armour piercing isn't as high, a mix of 4 menacing, 3 lucky is generally what's best. That's the figure that I came to myself from in-game testing, as well as calculating the dps of different setups throughout each stage of the game because the differences can literally be a few dps apart, I've also spoken to other people who came to the same conclusion.

But as much as I hate to say it, damage modifiers cannot compare to warding if you want to maximise your chance at beating bosses if a player is struggling - your dps will be made up for by the fact that you can stay alive when taking more hits... every second that you stay alive, you will be dealing more damage which increases in dps cannot compare to; and there is the fact that dps doesn't matter when you're dead. You can take this to an extreme, facetanking, where your survivability is so high that it's practically impossible to die: you can literally stand still, take every hit as a melee and defeat master mode moon lord, or other bosses like plantera and even the destroyer. But of course players aren't restricted from dodging at least some attacks making the strategy that much more overpowered. Other classes can also facetank, even summoner against the master mode empress of light or moon lord.

This even applies to difficulties as high as legendary mode given that projectile damage (other than Projectile NPCs such as the water sphere and burning sphere) are unaffected by the 77.78% damage boost from for the worthy, meaning bosses like moon lord are exactly the same as master mode other than the increase in HP (it is still possible to facetank legendary mode moon lord) - most attacks you are hit by will be projectiles so tanking is generally still effective, unless you are fighting a boss like the brain of Cthulhu who only deals contact damage, in which case increases to defence will not be high enough to make the fight easier, making maximisation of dps optimal for any type of player.

Despite this, I would still recommend damage modifiers because tanking is incredibly brain dead and players will never improve by relying on it. It's like playing on god-mode, it's not impressive at all. Even if you play hardcore, but tank for the entire game, it's not that cool, it's expected that you should beat the game because there's nearly no risk as you're essentially cheesing every boss/ reducing the damage of general enemy hits to a near unnoticeable level.

I am confused. could you try to dumb it down or something because i don't understand what any of it means. is there a video that explains it with visual examples that would be very helpful.

[admos]

Originally posted by Monkeyboss999:

I am confused. could you try to dumb it down or something because i don't understand what any of it means. is there a video that explains it with visual examples that would be very helpful.

Melee speed is good for specific builds but doesn't have any effect on the projectile count on melee weapons (unless stated), so it's useless for those melee weapons who only have projectiles that deal damage.

Lucky is better for Melee than it is for Rangers because Melee has more armor piercing options. You want to mix Lucky and Menacing for best DPS output.

Warding is god-tier on all classes as each class can facetank with a few specific builds. It also helps noobs stay alive which ultimately 'increase' their dps due to.. not being dead.

They recommend getting DMG mods cause tank builds are too effective and allows the player to not actually learn the mechanics of the game, i.e. cheese build.

Pretty much, if you like to have fun by challenging yourself by learning boss mechanics, go damage mods. If you want to have fun and stand in a pool of honey while killing all bosses, go warding.

Just my opinion: you're playing a single player game, just play/ruin the game how you like. You can always change builds in the middle of it anyway.

[Claret_Leader]

Originally posted by admos:

Originally posted by Monkeyboss999:

I am confused. could you try to dumb it down or something because i don't understand what any of it means. is there a video that explains it with visual examples that would be very helpful.

Melee speed is good for specific builds but doesn't have any effect on the projectile count on melee weapons (unless stated), so it's useless for those melee weapons who only have projectiles that deal damage.

Lucky is better for Melee than it is for Rangers because Melee has more armor piercing options. You want to mix Lucky and Menacing for best DPS output.

Warding is god-tier on all classes as each class can facetank with a few specific builds. It also helps noobs stay alive which ultimately 'increase' their dps due to.. not being dead.

They recommend getting DMG mods cause tank builds are too effective and allows the player to not actually learn the mechanics of the game, i.e. cheese build.

Pretty much, if you like to have fun by challenging yourself by learning boss mechanics, go damage mods. If you want to have fun and stand in a pool of honey while killing all bosses, go warding.

Just my opinion: you're playing a single player game, just play/ruin the game how you like. You can always change builds in the middle of it anyway.

Thanks

[Claret_Leader]

Originally posted by theworld:

Originally posted by Claret_Leader:

bosses like moon lord are exactly the same as master mode other than the increase in HP

This is wrong.

You can play Master on any seed, but there are only 2 Legendary seeds, and at least on GFB Legendary the Moon Lord does "bouncy" boulder bursts, which can jump very high. This does not happen on regular Master.

Heck, there are even differences between FTW and GFB for some bosses even when both are Legendary.

GFB EOW spawns eaters that have more HP and a lot more damage than the ones on FTW.

I'm afraid you are mistaken because you read that sentence out of context and ignored facts that should be implied by default, I am not wrong.

I was discussing the effectiveness of defence because some people (including the person I was replying to), might disregard defence or tanking, even in difficulties such as master mode. To prove my point, I introduced 'for the worthy', the seed that changes damage values to most enemies in the game to show that this strategy is still viable because of exception of projectiles (other than NPC projectiles), and decided to talk about 'Legendary Mode', because this is the limit.

While I could talk about get fixed boi, there is no reason why I should because it is simply the combination of every other seeds which mainly only impacts world generation (irrelevant to the topic), other than like one exception being the eater of souls and boulders from moon lord, and I'm not dragging out my message to include such an irrelevant discrepancy because it is already long enough, I'm not making a thesis - the baseline is, if warding is viable in legendary mode, it is viable in Get Fixed Boi as well because they are connected; There aren't enough differences to change this fact.

And it should be implied that when someone says 'Legendary Mode', they are talking about master mode + for the worthy, and 'Legendary Get Fixed Boi' should be spelled out with it's full title because 1. If someone says they are playing 'Legendary Mode', how are you suppose to guess Get Fixed Boi was included, 2. If someone said they were playing 'Get Fixed Boi', how else would you know the person isn't playing Classic Get Fixed Boi? (classic -> expert), and 3. If you were talking about a challenge run more generally, Legendary Mode and Legendary Mode Get Fixed Boi are two worlds apart, they may as well be different games. Think about it logically, if you completed the latter, why would you leave room for confusion making people think you beat a less demanding difficulty? It's like beating Legendary Mode Hardcore and only saying 'I beat Legendary Mode' at the end of it.

For that reason, I said that bosses such as the moon lord in Legendary Mode are exactly the same as master mode in terms of damage, the only difference being HP, which is true.

I chose moon lord specifically because his ai doesn't get any tweaks, and he can only deal damage via projectiles (idc about the hand).

So part am I wrong about?