Is it just me or does summoning suck endgame?

[Zombie]

I got all the sets and stuff and I have a decent array of weapons and ultimately it feels summoning is overall not worth it.

The stardust set imo is the worst endgame set, it has horrible defense and its set effect which lets you use the gaurdian is pretty useless, at least from the things I've tested it on. By the time you get the gaurdian, nothing else in the game that isn't a boss even needs to have its aggro taken off of you, your minions wreck stuff way too much and the crystal dragon destroys practically anything before it even gets on screen. The stragglers left behind are almost effortlessly dispatched by whatever you choose to use with it.


I'm not saying that the guardian is completely useless, I'm sure it has a few uses here and there but what is important is how it compares to all the new crap other classes got.


Melees endgame armor has the best defense, insane movement speed, very good critical bonus and the set effect is amazing and allows the user to both stop using their shield of cthulhu and it blocks a whopping 30% damage which, stacked with all the other % damage reduction items and the frozen turtle shell is literlaly insane. To top this off, melee gets an easy-to-use massive DOt inflicting sword-whip that can go through walls, an insane sword that can call machine-gun meteors from space, can throw around cat-projectiles that basically fill the entire screen with death and have access to one of the highest DPS in the game with the Terrarian yoyo.



Mages endgame get an insane hitscan weapon(the prism) that takes almost no effort to aim and does insane damage, they get a controllable meteor-machine-gun spell that can penetrate through walls, a pretty strong(but harder to aim less homing) version of the razorblade typhoon and their set effect is amazing even if you're not using magic due to the % damage increasing boosters and the HP regeneration boosters, overall they get a pretty insane upgrade from their spectre sets.


I haven't delved much in range yet because I dislike the range theme in just about any game, but their stealth mode toggle is pretty good and the phantasm bow pre-nerf was one of the most ridiculous items in the game(and is still pretty godly), they also have much better defense than the other classes(besides melee) and have the damage and crit to make up for it.



Summoners get a set with trashy defense, a mediocre set effect, a decent familiar that can go through walls and does incredibly high damage, but cannot withstand the countless amount of mobs during an invasion like the moon events and requires a ton of accessories dedicated to summoning and have no secondary usage to even be slightly decent, and their few advantages like auto-aiming and effortless fighting become obsolete with the sheer destruction other classes get. And a UFO turrent toggle that will never be of any real use many end game events, and ultimately, a non-summoner can just throiw out a single(or double with witch table) stardust dragon minion and call it a day, and it'll have pretty much most of the utility a fully dedicated minion army can muster when combined with your massive DPS anyway.



I think the gaurdian should give the summoner a defense buff that builds up over time like the solar armor and beetle armor, and also have the seconary ability to be deployed(like how melees set effect has the dashing secondary usage). The gaurdian should become stronger and have a larger AOE based on what charge it has built up to. Perhaps you could possibly rework it's goofy tanking ability and just have a deployed gaurdian buff your minions and maybe allow them to do critical hits or something? The tanking ability of the gaurdian is better suited to a midgame set and not an endgame one.


What do you guys think about summoning? Perhaps you guys know something I don't that makes summoning not suck endgame?

[Myth]

Summoning Armor and Staffs are meant to be an option to use. You don't have to, that and the Summon Class is one that you let the minions fight, while you can just dodge the attacks and flee while your minions do all the work. That and you can also use other weapons too, especially higher tier ones that still do high base damage without the class type of armor it has.

[daniel]

You may have low defense, but you do have a frickin Dragon that can do 1000+ damage on each hit.

[Darqfalls]

You guys are all forgetting that the Summoner is an actual class now, not just a side-class. Like an actual class, it should be able to do everything else that every other class can do as effectively. Every class has decent defense based around the way they deal damage. Melee has high defense because they need to get in closer than other classes. Ranger has medium defense because they don't need to be close to deal high amounts of damage. The reason they have more defense than a Mage is because of the whole stealth mode thing. Mage have lower defense, but can do massive damage from far away, AND the end-game sets have buffing effects to help both them and other classes along, so their defense works just fine. This simply is not the case for Summoners. They don't deal as much damage, and their defensive capabilities don't support this.

[Batabii • Suikoden I&II HD]

Автор сообщения: Darqfalls

You guys are all forgetting that the Summoner is an actual class now, not just a side-class. Like an actual class, it should be able to do everything else that every other class can do as effectively. Every class has decent defense based around the way they deal damage. Melee has high defense because they need to get in closer than other classes. Ranger has medium defense because they don't need to be close to deal high amounts of damage. The reason they have more defense than a Mage is because of the whole stealth mode thing. Mage have lower defense, but can do massive damage from far away, AND the end-game sets have buffing effects to help both them and other classes along, so their defense works just fine. This simply is not the case for Summoners. They don't deal as much damage, and their defensive capabilities don't support this.

Автор сообщения: Danielhrz

You may have low defense, but you do have a frickin Dragon that can do 1000+ damage on each hit.

[Darqfalls]

Автор сообщения: Batabii - Satoru Iwata 1959-2015

Автор сообщения: Darqfalls

You guys are all forgetting that the Summoner is an actual class now, not just a side-class. Like an actual class, it should be able to do everything else that every other class can do as effectively. Every class has decent defense based around the way they deal damage. Melee has high defense because they need to get in closer than other classes. Ranger has medium defense because they don't need to be close to deal high amounts of damage. The reason they have more defense than a Mage is because of the whole stealth mode thing. Mage have lower defense, but can do massive damage from far away, AND the end-game sets have buffing effects to help both them and other classes along, so their defense works just fine. This simply is not the case for Summoners. They don't deal as much damage, and their defensive capabilities don't support this.

Автор сообщения: Danielhrz

You may have low defense, but you do have a frickin Dragon that can do 1000+ damage on each hit.

Whereas other classes have weapons that can vastly out-DPS it.

[Bob of Mage]

The summoner needs more types of minons. By this I do not mean more staffs that call in more of the same, but instead minions that do other things. For example a shield minion that blocks enemy attacks. It would create a bubble that players could stand in and be protected from attacks, but could also fight back from (rangers and mages would love this). It would need an hp bar and would have stronger versions as time goes on.

Another idea would be a healer minion. It could come in a number of forms. An unmoveable area of effect minion to something that flies around healing each player that needs it. Rate of healing, its movemnet (or lack of), and maybe hp could get better as you find better versions.

There could be minions that add buffs to other players. Maybe something like the buff from bettle armour that goes away after each hit, maybe something with a short time limit so you need to be near the minions to keep the effect, or maybe you just need to be near the minion.

If the summoner had to juggle a bunch of support minions as well as attack minions it would give them something to do in battle. It would also be nice if there were types of minion slots so you would have to mix more types of minions, instead of just spamming the strongest one.

[Frogmind]

it's just u dude trust me

[Unicarn]

Summoner does suck. Ranger deals a lot more damage, mage deals a lot more damage, and warrior deals more damage and all three are more tanky.

[Darqfalls]

Автор сообщения: Bob of Mage

The summoner needs more types of minons. By this I do not mean more staffs that call in more of the same, but instead minions that do other things. For example a shield minion that blocks enemy attacks. It would create a bubble that players could stand in and be protected from attacks, but could also fight back from (rangers and mages would love this). It would need an hp bar and would have stronger versions as time goes on.

Another idea would be a healer minion. It could come in a number of forms. An unmoveable area of effect minion to something that flies around healing each player that needs it. Rate of healing, its movemnet (or lack of), and maybe hp could get better as you find better versions.

There could be minions that add buffs to other players. Maybe something like the buff from bettle armour that goes away after each hit, maybe something with a short time limit so you need to be near the minions to keep the effect, or maybe you just need to be near the minion.

If the summoner had to juggle a bunch of support minions as well as attack minions it would give them something to do in battle. It would also be nice if there were types of minion slots so you would have to mix more types of minions, instead of just spamming the strongest one.

These are all great ideas. Honestly it's exactly what Summoners need.

[Batabii • Suikoden I&II HD]

Summoners have less defense and do less damage because THEY DO LESS WORK. You pretty much just sit there and the minions auto-attack anything nearby. Yes you can add other attacks on top of that, but really, I think summoner isn't as bad as people seem to say.

[Darqfalls]

Автор сообщения: Batabii - Satoru Iwata 1959-2015

Summoners have less defense and do less damage because THEY DO LESS WORK. You pretty much just sit there and the minions auto-attack anything nearby. Yes you can add other attacks on top of that, but really, I think summoner isn't as bad as people seem to say.

Except Summoners SHOULDN'T do less work. Re-Logic made them a full-blown class, but they don't TREAT it like a full-blown class, which is why it's vastly underpowered compared to the others. They should be able to hold their own against anything the game can throw at them, by themselves, JUST LIKE THE OTHER CLASSES CAN.

[Ember]

Автор сообщения: Zappy

Too much APM for you? Then go whine for devs to buff copper armor. Why the hell you cant beat moon lord in copper armor with wooden sword? WHY?

The reason you can't beat him is because you're using a wooden sword. Everyone knows it's impossible to do unless you use a Broken Copper Shortsword.

[Batabii • Suikoden I&II HD]

Автор сообщения: Darqfalls

Автор сообщения: Batabii - Satoru Iwata 1959-2015

Summoners have less defense and do less damage because THEY DO LESS WORK. You pretty much just sit there and the minions auto-attack anything nearby. Yes you can add other attacks on top of that, but really, I think summoner isn't as bad as people seem to say.

Except Summoners SHOULDN'T do less work. Re-Logic made them a full-blown class, but they don't TREAT it like a full-blown class, which is why it's vastly underpowered compared to the others. They should be able to hold their own against anything the game can throw at them, by themselves, JUST LIKE THE OTHER CLASSES CAN.

let me rephrase that

Summoners require less work. They do a majority of their DPS whether they even press any keys or not. All their attacks home in (or at least lock on to enemies, even if the projectile itself is slower). You're exchanging defense for the safety of your horde. After all, how can you get hit (other than by bosses) when everything else is dead before it can get anywhere near you? In that respect, Summoner is far less risk than mage.

[Darqfalls]

Автор сообщения: Batabii - Satoru Iwata 1959-2015

Автор сообщения: Darqfalls

Except Summoners SHOULDN'T do less work. Re-Logic made them a full-blown class, but they don't TREAT it like a full-blown class, which is why it's vastly underpowered compared to the others. They should be able to hold their own against anything the game can throw at them, by themselves, JUST LIKE THE OTHER CLASSES CAN.

let me rephrase that

Summoners require less work. They do a majority of their DPS whether they even press any keys or not. All their attacks home in (or at least lock on to enemies, even if the projectile itself is slower). You're exchanging defense for the safety of your horde. After all, how can you get hit (other than by bosses) when everything else is dead before it can get anywhere near you? In that respect, Summoner is far less risk than mage.

That doesn't mean Summoners should have less defense than other classes, though. With Ranger and Mage, you trade off defense in return for ranged attacks. And while you have to do less work, that doesn't mean you should have defense that's subpar for taking on wave events or bosses. This mainly applies to Expert Mode but Normal Mode is the same, really.

[MimicMachine]

I think the summoner class could use some improvements

Автор сообщения: Bob of Mage

The summoner needs more types of minons. By this I do not mean more staffs that call in more of the same, but instead minions that do other things. For example a shield minion that blocks enemy attacks. It would create a bubble that players could stand in and be protected from attacks, but could also fight back from (rangers and mages would love this). It would need an hp bar and would have stronger versions as time goes on.

Another idea would be a healer minion. It could come in a number of forms. An unmoveable area of effect minion to something that flies around healing each player that needs it. Rate of healing, its movemnet (or lack of), and maybe hp could get better as you find better versions.

There could be minions that add buffs to other players. Maybe something like the buff from bettle armour that goes away after each hit, maybe something with a short time limit so you need to be near the minions to keep the effect, or maybe you just need to be near the minion.

If the summoner had to juggle a bunch of support minions as well as attack minions it would give them something to do in battle. It would also be nice if there were types of minion slots so you would have to mix more types of minions, instead of just spamming the strongest one.

out of all the suggestions I've seen this is one of the few that I think is good.
most other suggestions don't really seem like they would really help
the stardust armor's set bonus does have some issues for sure but many suggestions just don't seem like they would fix the problem

Stardust armor does have a poor defense but it is still better than a large part of hardmode armors. maybe bring it up to 40-42 defense (summoner should be the lowest defense but right now it is 8 less than nebula armor).