Is Summoner Just Objectively the Worst?

[The Lemon]

Okay this might be a controversial take, but hear me out.

I started a solo master mode playthrough recently and I wanted to make it reasonably challenging for funsies. I had never done full summoner up until this point, so after my first mech boss, I used summoner hallowed armor and went full summoner from then on. And sweet jesus, this is so much worse than the rest of the classes.

Now, I'm generally a melee main, I find it to be the most fun to play. I also recognize that ranger is probably objectively the strongest, given how it has only a bit less survivability and far more range. Summoner feels like an intentionally difficult class by comparison.

Basically I imagine the game design behind the defense disparities is due to the theorized range associated with each class. Melee *theoretically* has the least range, so it has the most defense. Range is a little farther, so it has a little less. Etc. etc. However, summoner is legitimately more melee than melee. Whips are their only way to deal even on par damage, and get their stupid ass minions to hit the boss, but whips have very little range compared to even most melee weapons, especially in late hardmode. Summoners also only get whips and have basically no homing capabilities, because again, the minions don't focus the targets well unless you strike them with your whip.

Now don't get me wrong, I don't think Summoner is like terrible or anything, it's totally playable. I think it just dips really hard in the post-golem zone, because I feel like the raven staff and deadly sphere staff are nowhere near strong enough to stand up to the Martian Invasion or Duke Fishron, and of course, their pre-moon-lord armor is the spooky armor, which has completely ♥♥♥♥ defense and you have to get incredibly close to enemies constantly. So basically I'm wondering, does anyone else have a similar experience with summoner and view it as a "challenge" class, or do I just need to git gud?

[Útost Alronbem]

the minions don't focus the targets well unless you strike them with your whip

Right click on the enemy with summoning item, if you need to focus-fire something with your summoned stuff THAT badly. No whip required. You'll miss damage/crit/splosion bonus though.

I also recognize that ranger is probably objectively the strongest, given how it has only a bit less survivability and far more range.

Melee can exploit boomerangs and yoyos. With really decent range (huge with bee/Terrarian yoyo or Captain America's shield). And all benefits of being technically melee, like flasks and 'On Fire! on melee hit' accessories.

Rangers have more consistent damage output regardless of ALL other circumstances. Just by the virtue of having infinite ammo craftable.

Pure mage have maximal effective range in the game (projectiles despawn after ~1 minute of flight time - placeable ♥♥♥♥ like Nimbus Rod clouds don't. Even off-screen) and, depending on setup, can clean screenfuls of small enemies, focus single targets, inflict really decent debuffs (-10 DEF from Golden Shower, anyone?) or... even heal others.

Summoners... I believe, on higher difficulty levels Summoning items are complementing other classes mostly. Unless you implement one simple trick to mow down bosses as pure summoner.

Summon Tag Damage Bonus From Different Whips Still Stacks.
Even On Sentries.
You do use Sentries as Summoner, do you?

I. e. basically Summoners are real glass cannons in this game. You waste your armor slots, you spend time preparing the setup - but then either you hit hard or you die.

Decent 4th pick in 4-player party, decent set of support items for singleplayer... and nothing else.

[Geek Ultra]

if built right, you can kick moon lord's axx in 30-40 seconds in classic.

[Chute Mi]

Most people make the mistake of seeing the low defence of summoner armour generally and just try to get warding on all accesories. Summoner isn't designed to tank hits, just deal consistent dps, and this is especially important playing harder difficulties such as master mode where everything generally has more hp. Since summoner doesn't benefit from critical hits i recommend wearing dps focused accesories and mobility, all reforged to menacing. Switching between different whips will also boost your dps as different whips give different bonuses. As you mention summoner dipping in terms of effectiveness post Golem I find that funny since summoner is supposed to dish out the highest dps (or almost highest) at that stage in the game. If you struggle to find/use good minions for this stage, with the right arena+buffs Lunatic Cultist is doable with Raven Staff, and fyi pre mech Duke Fishron is doable too with the right arena/buffs (involves the use of hooks alot) just using the spider staff. Because its a class that gets punished for taking hits (like mage or ranger) in hardmode, this means you will have to try boss fights quite a few times until you get the hang of dealing dps to them as a summoner. If you struggle with any events or bosses, look at your arenas/buffs, see what you can improve about them and I'm sure you'll succeed in the end. Good luck.

[dandinks]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Chute Mi:

Most people make the mistake of seeing the low defence of summoner armour generally and just try to get warding on all accesories. Summoner isn't designed to tank hits, just deal consistent dps, and this is especially important playing harder difficulties such as master mode where everything generally has more hp. Since summoner doesn't benefit from critical hits i recommend wearing dps focused accesories and mobility, all reforged to menacing. Switching between different whips will also boost your dps as different whips give different bonuses. As you mention summoner dipping in terms of effectiveness post Golem I find that funny since summoner is supposed to dish out the highest dps (or almost highest) at that stage in the game. If you struggle to find/use good minions for this stage, with the right arena+buffs Lunatic Cultist is doable with Raven Staff, and fyi pre mech Duke Fishron is doable too with the right arena/buffs (involves the use of hooks alot) just using the spider staff. Because its a class that gets punished for taking hits (like mage or ranger) in hardmode, this means you will have to try boss fights quite a few times until you get the hang of dealing dps to them as a summoner. If you struggle with any events or bosses, look at your arenas/buffs, see what you can improve about them and I'm sure you'll succeed in the end. Good luck.

summoner only does good damage with the xeno and stardust dragon staff the rest are kinda mid, ofc maybe its just that the uzi (to kill fishron) then the tsunami (5k dps till pillars) is just op in comparison

[Polarcrest]

There are classes that are clearly better and some that are worse. I have played through MANY times and I don't go for "the best" I go for what's fun or something I haven't done before. Summoner might not be the strongest but it's one of the most fun. It has some of the most fun weapons and armor to grind up and it's a challenge.

My fav playthrough of summoner was I was no allowed to use anything but the summons. No weapons or whips. I could not attack. Only my summons could deal damage. VERY fun playthrough. Very challenging.

Just play what's fun. Also, late game when you are just cruising around, I promise you, summoner is the best. The drops from queen fairy lady are just insane with the proper build. You'll never even see an enemy ever again. They get melted before they even appear on screen.

[laslax]

Summoner is just very... complicated. There's so much you need to know to actually get the most of of summoner, like whip stacking, your prehardmode minions having I-frame problems so you have to use multiple different summons, and what minions go well with what whip(s) you're currently using. Summoner can also multiclass with OOA armor, and defense issues can be fixed via armor mixing.
https://terraria.wiki.gg/wiki/Guide:Armor_progression

[Chute Mi]

"summoner only does good damage with the xeno and stardust dragon staff the rest are kinda mid, ofc maybe its just that the uzi (to kill fishron) then the tsunami (5k dps till pillars) is just op in comparison [/quote]"I dont know how/where you source this argument from but I don't really see how only the xeno/stardust staffs do good damage alone, like many others on this thread suggest it's about how to keep up consistent dps. I'm not saying you're wrong, all I'm saying is you also have to keep in mind like each whip effect, which minion type best suits the boss you're fighting (which minion ai dishes out the highest dps according to which boss) for example most people agree the stardust dragon performs best against Moonlord in terms of dps, and for fast moving aerial bosses like maybe the Duke or Empress Xeno staff is the way to go, on the other hand there's the terraprisma which excels at mob clearing and has a respectable amount of dps (basically almost god-tier), or with the right set up blade staff can deal high dps with its armor pierce ability. It's all really situational but it requires alot of knowledge in terms of enemy armor, minion ai and whip stack effects and switching between them. It also depends on how much you want to deal dps using whips vs. dealing dps with minions (you can interchange accessories like feral claws for minion dps booster accessories).

[happygiggi]

To be truly objective you need to compare to other classes.

I played a ton on mastermode. Summoner isn't the EZ mode, but also no the worst of all. In higher difficulty the gap between classes's balance is bigger.

Melee is the worst. As every enemies is designed to try to contact damage you. Keeping distance will always be better, wich is the opposite to melee class. and the damage output is very low you take forever to kill.

Summoner is second of the worst. You're very frail, but can dish good damage as long you git gud to dodge.

Ranger is second best. Great all around. Huge damage and many guns/bows for different case.

Mage is the best, insane damage output, and can be virtually impaired by nothing. Can attack through walls, bounce wall, homing, extreme lasting weapon effect, and even in lategame the best life drain that turn everything into a joke. Just drink a mana regen potions and you have no downside at all. Even just the magic power potion is busted when you compare to other class's specific potions.

Also summoner hallowed armor is very bad. You should try dungeon defender armor, these are damn strong. Even as non summoner playthrough.

[Joshua Kurayami]

The problem with the Summoner isn't it about it being the worst class, but rather that it's the but it is definitely the most lacking, considering that the devs have not bothered to balance out the amount of weapons there are in the game. Currently there are less summoner weapons combined (47) than there are melee prehardmode swords (53). Even when they do add more weapons to summoner, Melee, the most bloated of all classes still somehow gets more crap added to their arsenal.

[Uzi Master]

Well, do keep in mind that all summoner weapons are relevant and different. Yeah melee has gold sword and silver sword and platinum sword... But they're hardly relevant.

Overall, summoner might be the weakest in a start-to-finish only using one damage-type kind of run. But if you use certain classes for certain situations it has it's uses. AFK farms are best done with summoner gear.

Plus you can always just have one summoner weapon active no matter what you're doing.