"Velocity" or "Use Time" stats for a Summon minions

[Uzvar_Belarus]

So we have the well-known list of minions[terraria.fandom.com], right?
In the table we see "Velocity" and "Use Time" columns, but for the love of god i can't find explanation on which one of them is responsible for minion's rate of fire?

Both stats has their own pages, but none of them contain any information about how those stats should be read in case of summon weapons.
So i would be gratefull if someone could answer about theese two:

Velocity = minion's fire rate or speed of their projectile?
Use Time = minion's fire rate or duration between re-summoning (useless in that way)?

[123dtd]

"Velocity is a hidden statistic that defines the travel speed of a projectile, i.e. the number of pixels that it moves forward on its trajectory every tick. It is not to be confused with use time, which is the delay between subsequent uses of an item (e.g. "Fast", "Average", "Slow"). The higher the weapon's velocity, the faster the projectile travels, and the less the player will need to "lead" shots ahead of a moving target. This is an advantage that may prove very useful when fighting fast-moving enemies or when attacking from a long distance."
https://terraria.fandom.com/wiki/Velocity

"Use time is a statistic that applies to weapons, tools and other usable items. It determines the time that must pass, after use, before the same item or another item can be used again. In basic terms, this is the "rate of fire", as measured in game ticks. A lower use time means a faster weapon. The shortswords, for example, usually have a use time between 10 and 13, meaning that they can be used in quick succession, as compared to the exceptionally slow Volcano, which has a use time of 40 – a much slower weapon which cannot be used as often."
https://terraria.fandom.com/wiki/Use_time
You can click on each word at the top of the table to be taken to the respective wikipedia page.

[Uzvar_Belarus]

123dtd
As i wrote, "Both stats has their own pages, but none of them contain any information about how those stats should be read in case of summon weapons."

[123dtd]

They work the same way as with other tools, fire rate is usually displayed in the respective wikipedia page for each summon rod. For example, the Imp Staff says "The Imp attacks with an average rate of fire of once every 1.25 seconds. The delay between attacks can range between 0.75 and 1.5 seconds."

[LT2483]

Minion RoF, where relevant, appears to be randomised. For example, the "Imp Staff" page notes that "The Imp attacks with an average rate of fire of once every 1.25 seconds. The delay between attacks can range between 0.75 and 1.5 seconds.". And for melee minions, you couldn't get more than a theoretical RoF, since they aren't always in contact.

Basically, just use the handy gifs on each page to estimate how much each minion attacks.

As for velocity and use time, velocity is basically meaningless, and use time is how long it takes to summon a minion.

[Uzvar_Belarus]

123dtd

Originally posted by 123dtd:

They work the same way as with other tools

But summon weapons aren't other tools. They doesn't work like other tools. So it's not clearly understandble how to apply those description here. For example, lets take Velocity. The Imp Staff itself doesn't have any projectiles. So what, should i think that stats on that list are all about summoned minions, not the weapons itself?
Okay then. Then Use time also should be not about a staff, but about a minion, right? They are in the same list. But what "Use Time" means then?

Originally posted by 123dtd:

For example, the Imp Staff says "The Imp attacks with an average rate of fire of once every 1.25 seconds. The delay between attacks can range between 0.75 and 1.5 seconds."

Thank you, i found that. So it's not the Velocity nor the Use time?
Then how do i sort that list by power of minions? Just the damage number obviously isn't enough becouse higher damage could be in overall weaker if RoF is lower.
So do i need to go to each summon wepon's page to check Notes to get the attack speed and make calculation for each Summon weapon somewhere in Excel?

LT2483

Originally posted by LT2483:

Minion RoF, where relevant, appears to be randomised.

Yeah, i see. But they still should have some kind of average number, right? And is this number different for every minions? Which items/acessories could boost the RoF of minion?

[Xeno42]

the page should be in order of acquisition which should means its in order of average power give me a sec to double check

[Xeno42]

yeah the list are in order of effectiveness for the most part. one thing is that abigail scales very well and is still useful early hardmode as she gets buffed and the terraprisma can technically be gotten earlier but that requires fighting a specific boss in a way that is much much harder

https://terraria.wiki.gg/wiki/Summon_weapons

(btw the terraria fandom wiki i find to be outdated at times so i recommend using the official wiki)

[123dtd]

Originally posted by Uzvar_Belarus:

123dtd

Originally posted by 123dtd:

They work the same way as with other tools

But summon weapons aren't other tools. They doesn't work like other tools. So it's not clearly understandble how to apply those description here. For example, lets take Velocity. The Imp Staff itself doesn't have any projectiles. So what, should i think that stats on that list are all about summoned minions, not the weapons itself?
Okay then. Then Use time also should be not about a staff, but about a minion, right? They are in the same list. But what "Use Time" means then?

"Velocity" usually means the speed of an object, and in this case I would assume it means the speed of the minion, as the minion is the object created by the tool. this same concept of velocity also applies to bows/guns/etc.

"Use Time" usually refers to the time that it takes to use an item, so it represents the time which it would take to use the staff

Originally posted by Uzvar_Belarus:

Originally posted by 123dtd:

For example, the Imp Staff says "The Imp attacks with an average rate of fire of once every 1.25 seconds. The delay between attacks can range between 0.75 and 1.5 seconds."

Thank you, i found that. So it's not the Velocity nor the Use time?
Then how do i sort that list by power of minions? Just the damage number obviously isn't enough becouse higher damage could be in overall weaker if RoF is lower.
So do i need to go to each summon wepon's page to check Notes to get the attack speed and make calculation for each Summon weapon somewhere in Excel?

You cannot find a "Fire Rate" for a melee summon, as the summon cannot always be in contact while damaging. The best way to find "Power" of a summon is to either estimate it yourself by watching the summon on each page/in creative mode/other, or you can use either Google or YouTube to find someone who has already calculated such things. You are correct in that damage alone is not enough, so if you do estimate the power of a summon staff then also take into consideration things like if you need the summon to travel through walls or any other concerns.

[Uzvar_Belarus]

Xeno42

Originally posted by Xeno42:

the page should be in order of acquisition which should means its in order of average power give me a sec to double check

Is it based on any confirmed information or is it just your premonition?
Cuz it totally doesn't feel this way. There are many inconsistencies. For example, if we look at hardmode minions, Optic Staff is at 5th line, while the Sanguine Staff is just at the 2nd. But in practice, Sanguine Staff is much more effective then slow and inaccurate Optic minions.
Also, Optic Staff i got pretty early, when defeated The Twins mech boss. I just ran the flat surface and shoot at him. Got me 4 tries to defeat. But Skeletron and The Destroyer were much harder for me, as well as fishing during Blood Moon. Drednautilus and Blood Eel were killing me in just a few seconds. So i had to farm for a week for those life fruits, for new armor, new weapons, build supporting arenas and only then i was able to defeat Skeletron and Destroyer, as well as Drednautilus so i could get those Sanguine Staff.
So the table order doesn't really feel like from worst to best.

Originally posted by Xeno42:

(btw the terraria fandom wiki i find to be outdated at times so i recommend using the official wiki)

Thank you, it really is better.


123dtd

Originally posted by 123dtd:

"Velocity" usually means the speed of an object, and in this case I would assume it means the speed of the minion, as the minion is the object created by the tool.

Wait, just so i understood you correctly, you mean the speed of their projectiles (spears thrown by Pygmies, Retanimini's laser) or minion's own moving speed (how fast Pygmy run, how fast Retanimini fly)?
Also, if it's just "i assume" then it isn't actually what i'm looking here, no offence, but i would like to know for sure.

Originally posted by 123dtd:

"Use Time" usually refers to the time that it takes to use an item, so it represents the time which it would take to use the staff

This would mean that in your assumption one stat refers to the staff itself, while the other refers to the minions summoned by it. Which doesn't sound coherently at all...

Originally posted by 123dtd:

The best way to find "Power" of a summon is to either estimate it yourself by watching the summon on each page/in creative mode/other

well. i'm playing with them for weeks now, but i'm still not sure that i can determine the difference between them correctly. Eyes and feelings sometimes exaggerate or underestimate things, some luck and situational nuances are involved, numerous times i found myself changing the feeling (which is best between the two summon weapons) from one to another and then back again.
So that's why i would like to see solid numbers (or average numbers). Numbers doesn't lie.

Originally posted by 123dtd:

or you can use either Google or YouTube to find someone who has already calculated such things.

I tried, found no calculation, only gameplay videos.

Originally posted by 123dtd:

You are correct in that damage alone is not enough

Yes! That's why i started to investigate and created this thread in the first place.

Originally posted by 123dtd:

so if you do estimate the power of a summon staff then also take into consideration things like if you need the summon to travel through walls or any other concerns.

Exactly! I found that there are many important stats that distinguish minions.
1. we have Damage in the table.
2. we have Velocity - but not 100% sure what it refers to
3. we have Use time - but not 100% sure what it refers to
4. ability to travel through walls as you said = not in the table
5. even when they all can travel through walls, i found there are other hidden differences . For example, both Sanguine Staff and Blade Staff could travel through walls. But i noticed if i'm inside a little enclosed house during a Blood Moon, the Blade Staff blades are flying
and killing everything that moves, while Sanguine Staff bats just lazily hovering above my head, even if i am at the same house, standing at the same place. One of them occasionally could trigger at some enemy, but this is rare occasion. So i'm not sure what stat is involved here. The distance of aggro? But in empty space Sanguine bats fly even far then my screen. Enclosed quarters? But still, The bats could definitely travel through blocks.
6. Also mechanic of different minions is very different. For example, Pirates has almost 7 times more damage output then Blade Staff, but they need to run to enemy first and according to experience, they run much slower and much, i don't know, lazier Sometimes they do not even have time to run, and the enemy is already dead.

I'm not sure about that hidden aggro stat and how to calculate it towards average effectiveness of a minion to finally get a clear understanding which weapon is actually better.