Pylons vs. Effort vs. Impact

[Khorzho]

I absolutely love 1.4. Soooo much awesomeness added to Terraria.

But... we need to talk about Pylons and how they could be improved vastly. (TLDR at bottom)

In principle, Pylons are a cool idea. Having a new way to instantly hop around the biomes without your world being criss-crossed with wires is neat. And having a new use/purpose for NPCs is pretty cool too. Any time you can make villagers more a part of the game, it's good in my book.

That being said, there are some real stumbling-blocks to make them truly useful, and viable as a meta concept.

1. Forced diaspora - Since I bought Terraria all those years ago, and as more and more NPCs were added to the game, I cleared land in my worlds for unique NPC housing around my main base/castle. At first this housing is no more than rectangles, but as I progress through a world, I develop more and more elaborate housing with the idea that my NPC community is advancing with the changes around them.

If I were to pursue Pylons fully, I would have many abandoned structures, as not only do the NPCs now want to be in specific biomes, but they want to be near or away from certain other NPCs. I feel like all the hard work I put into making a camp turn into a village then into a town is negated by new NPC prejudices.

2. Pylon neediness - Despite the problem of breaking up your community of NPCs, there is also the little problem of making the Pylon itself work. Being able to place them wherever is useless in the face of the requirement of having 2 or more NPCs near it. This puts an outright restriction on NPC housing in the game, as you must always build dwellings in pairs. Considering there are 9 different pylons in the game, that means if you want to use all the Pylons, you will have only 7 NPCs to do what you want with as far as housing placement goes.

This is a real creative bane and very un-terrarian. There was only one NPC that needed special housing previously, The Truffle, and his little minor exception to free form housing was more of a flavorful quirk, than an outright strangulation of town design.


For me personally, after buying a couple pylons and seeing the restriction on their use, I threw my hands up and walked away from them.

My suggestions for fixing them are as follows:
1. Make NPC happiness less reliant on biomes. Some of the NPC biome preferences just seem kind of wonky. Why not let them be happy around NPCs they like more important than where they are?

2. Let Pylons work without NPC proximity. This will make them FAR more interesting to use and more useful.

TLDR: A fully equipped and enabled Pylon network limits creativity in NPC housing placement. A suggestion to change this, is to make them usable without NPC proximity, and NPC happiness not so biome dependent.

[Sebastian]

Originally posted by Smug aya:

it is early pre hard mode

then why did you say

Originally posted by Smug aya:

You have an eaiser time wiring and waiting for the teleporters sold by the mechanic and steampunker or skyrail.

Originally posted by Smug aya:

in hard mode why the ♥♥♥♥ would you ever use pylons when you have other items at your disposal?

because they are painfully easy to get, set up and use?

[Khorzho]

Please everyone. Lets tamp down on the harshness of some of the replies?

This was only an opinion with some facts to back it up. If you like the Pylon system as it is, I respect that. I simply don't see it as a viable option for elaborate towns in existing worlds without a significant amount of reconstruction, and a general 'decentralization' of your NPC population.

[Sebastian]

Originally posted by Khorzho:

I simply don't see it as a viable option for elaborate towns in existing worlds without a significant amount of reconstruction, and a general 'decentralization' of your NPC population.

and while I disagree in its severity, it is an entirely valid point.
what I do NOT agree on is that pylons take "all this effort".

[Wintermute]

They are somewhat inconvinient to set up, and prone to "surprises" like hardmode evil or pillars spawning right on ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ top of them. But people saying they'd rather wire teleports are completely deranged. There's nothing more convinient to travel large world than pylon network.

What really should happen is universal pylon being available sooner than 100% bestiary.

[Jostabeere]

Originally posted by Smug aya:

Agree.
Also it does hinder making bases.
Imo to fix pylons:

-Have it not reliant on hapiness only unlocked if your npc is in the biome so they sell it. Hapiness should only affect prices.

-yeah get rid of the 2 npc requirements. Instead how about reliant more on how many biome tiles are nearby (like 100 say jungle biome tiles to use it meaning you have to put it somewhere in the middle or below blocks which is fair).

-heres one you left out is make the universal biome avaliable after killing the moon lord. B.s. that you gotta discover 100% bestiary to unlock the ability to buy it. In old worlds hard to do and outright impossoble because of ant lion larvaes. Maybe 100% bestiary give a torch reward seeing as devs love to circlejerk torches in-game.


Pylons were a good idea on paper but in-game it sorta depletes the purpose of having or using one if you have to do all this effort just to buy/use them. Also during events or fights like the lunar pillars you can accidentally kill your npcs if the pillar is too close.

Point of having bases was to have them all in one spot and less danger or risk to them.

Honest questions. Is it so hard for you to build 2 house boxes per biome and move only 2 early pre-hardmode NPCs there to get pylons, then ignore happiness completely?
Do you unironically claim that wiring 2 teleporters up to 2000 tiles away from each other is faster than building 2 house boxes in a biome and move 2 NPCs there for a pylon sale?

FYI: They are already dependant on how many biome tiles are there.

Is it that hard for you to edit a larvae in your workd until devs fix the issue?

Originally posted by Khorzho:

Please everyone. Lets tamp down on the harshness of some of the replies?

This was only an opinion with some facts to back it up. If you like the Pylon system as it is, I respect that. I simply don't see it as a viable option for elaborate towns in existing worlds without a significant amount of reconstruction, and a general 'decentralization' of your NPC population.

Spoiler alert: Noone forces you to use all pylons. You can have... Wait for it... Only 4. or 2. Crazy!
Or one big town and one universal pylon! INSANE!!!

Don't want to attack anyone, and generally talking into the crowd. People who unironically say that teleporters are easier to set-up and pylons require too much work for what they give are either insanely stupid, trolling, or didn't understand the game at all.
Or are trolling.

[Jeffreyac]

Not to derail the internet fight, but a quick question about the rail networks...


(derail - heh - see what I did there??)

As one that hasn't set up a rail network before, I'm intrigued. Do folks generally dig an underground tunnel for them and make them like subways, or do folks generally make a skyrail? (I was leaning towards subway, but that sounds like a lot of digging...)

[Sebastian]

Originally posted by Jeffreyac:

Not to derail the internet fight, but a quick question about the rail networks...


(derail - heh - see what I did there??)

As one that hasn't set up a rail network before, I'm intrigued. Do folks generally dig an underground tunnel for them and make them like subways, or do folks generally make a skyrail? (I was leaning towards subway, but that sounds like a lot of digging...)

depends on what you want to do.
skyrails are easy to set up and if you have some way to prevent fall damage, they let you get off quickly anywhere.
actually underground in the biome is not that great, but building at or close to the "surface" , aka depth zero, can actually be useful as you get fast access to underground biomes, while still out of the way from the actual surface. it also helps stop biome spread once you hit hardmode.

[Darth Cannabis]

Sebastian sums up the rails pretty well. Its all mostly a matter of taste.

I personally, make the decision on HOW I do a rail line, after I fully mapped the surface, based on the terrain.

If for example, I find many surface caves, and potentially an already completed partial line generated by map, then I am more likely to do something slightly below surface with the towns on top. Particularly if dungeon entrance is down in a valley or partially buried. Subway stations and basement accesses to said rail.

If the terrain ends up having lots of tall peaks in and mountains or a, then I am much more likely to do a sky rail using those peaks as the points where the rail meets ground. Definitely more likely if one has an elevated or mountain top dungeon entrance.

In some cases, you can even do a mix of both. Had one world generation, where the central part of map was also high point and a sort of plateau. In that situation, I did a town and castle, with a subway, which as it exited the plateau on either side, became a sky rail to the jungle and dungeon.

Really the only advantage to a really deep rail line, is as a shortcut to a particular deep jungle temple or a plantera arena. In that case thou, a shaft from surface may serve you better.

[Bumbs]

some points in this I do agree with though, the rest can be easily fixed. But to the people who are saying to use other items like the teleport system, then you're wrong. If you add something into your game you should try to give more accessibility to your players. One limitation I experienced while building a wizard tower in the hollow, is that there is a limit to where the hallow can spread. Now I made sure that the tower was not high enough to go into space, but for some reason the biome reverted to the forest once I had gone high enough. The pylons are a problem in master mode, since if you didn't notice NPCS DIE A LOT. But like I said the teleport system is not an excuse when it comes to what the game devs did wrong when developing the pylons. If u use the telport system, then whats the point of using the pylons at all? There are too many limitations thats all, and yall need to except that thats true.

[Bumbs]

Originally posted by Jostabeere:

Originally posted by Smug aya:

Agree.
Also it does hinder making bases.
Imo to fix pylons:

-Have it not reliant on hapiness only unlocked if your npc is in the biome so they sell it. Hapiness should only affect prices.

-yeah get rid of the 2 npc requirements. Instead how about reliant more on how many biome tiles are nearby (like 100 say jungle biome tiles to use it meaning you have to put it somewhere in the middle or below blocks which is fair).

-heres one you left out is make the universal biome avaliable after killing the moon lord. B.s. that you gotta discover 100% bestiary to unlock the ability to buy it. In old worlds hard to do and outright impossoble because of ant lion larvaes. Maybe 100% bestiary give a torch reward seeing as devs love to circlejerk torches in-game.


Pylons were a good idea on paper but in-game it sorta depletes the purpose of having or using one if you have to do all this effort just to buy/use them. Also during events or fights like the lunar pillars you can accidentally kill your npcs if the pillar is too close.

Point of having bases was to have them all in one spot and less danger or risk to them.

Honest questions. Is it so hard for you to build 2 house boxes per biome and move only 2 early pre-hardmode NPCs there to get pylons, then ignore happiness completely?
Do you unironically claim that wiring 2 teleporters up to 2000 tiles away from each other is faster than building 2 house boxes in a biome and move 2 NPCs there for a pylon sale?

FYI: They are already dependant on how many biome tiles are there.

Is it that hard for you to edit a larvae in your workd until devs fix the issue?

Originally posted by Khorzho:

Please everyone. Lets tamp down on the harshness of some of the replies?

This was only an opinion with some facts to back it up. If you like the Pylon system as it is, I respect that. I simply don't see it as a viable option for elaborate towns in existing worlds without a significant amount of reconstruction, and a general 'decentralization' of your NPC population.

Spoiler alert: Noone forces you to use all pylons. You can have... Wait for it... Only 4. or 2. Crazy!
Or one big town and one universal pylon! INSANE!!!

Don't want to attack anyone, and generally talking into the crowd. People who unironically say that teleporters are easier to set-up and pylons require too much work for what they give are either insanely stupid, trolling, or didn't understand the game at all.
Or are trolling.

It still doesn't renew the fact the devs added this in and messed up in some ways with the design. Im not gonna say this guy is completely right but really its like this:
Pylons were intended to easily get rid of the time waste which comes from making a teleport system, or a skyline rail

[Fumo Bnnuy n Frends]

Originally posted by Jeffreyac:

Not to derail the internet fight, but a quick question about the rail networks...


(derail - heh - see what I did there??)

As one that hasn't set up a rail network before, I'm intrigued. Do folks generally dig an underground tunnel for them and make them like subways, or do folks generally make a skyrail? (I was leaning towards subway, but that sounds like a lot of digging...)

skyrail is generally easier and safer and is mostly the route people take for travel because it doubles as a sky arena for kiting many many bosses along with asphalt sky bridges.

where underground you have a bunch of enemies above ground you have at most harpies and wyverns which are somewhat easy to dispatch and kill. Also if you make it just high enough and low enough to the ground you'll never see many wyverns just harpies and sometimes martian probes if your'e lucky.

digging tunnels underground just takes too much time and effort even with fast mining speed and items like the huge automatic digging mount you can make with one of each ore bars. That and you gotta worry about things like water sand silt slush etc.


though tbh with the additon of the mole cart you can somewhat by pass the strain of placing and digging at the same time but you still gotta worry about obstacles listed above and enemies spawning depending on where you dig through/to! The other catch is you literally have to be underground to use it and being too close to the surface won't activate the ability.

[Jostabeere]

Originally posted by PositroN:

some points in this I do agree with though, the rest can be easily fixed. But to the people who are saying to use other items like the teleport system, then you're wrong. If you add something into your game you should try to give more accessibility to your players. One limitation I experienced while building a wizard tower in the hollow, is that there is a limit to where the hallow can spread. Now I made sure that the tower was not high enough to go into space, but for some reason the biome reverted to the forest once I had gone high enough. The pylons are a problem in master mode, since if you didn't notice NPCS DIE A LOT. But like I said the teleport system is not an excuse when it comes to what the game devs did wrong when developing the pylons. If u use the telport system, then whats the point of using the pylons at all? There are too many limitations thats all, and yall need to except that thats true.

Well, you are wrong.
Why?
Pylons are already easily accessible.
The limitation you've experienced is just your lack of... I dunno, something.
Extend your biome by placing more blocks higher up at the tower.
NPCs do not die a lot if you build their houses smart.
Developers did nothing wrong in that regards, you do it wrong.
How is one ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. Just. One. Single. Requirement suddenly: Too many limitations?
it makes me unironically furious when people use their incompetence as an argument.
Stop crying about trivial ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ if you fail at the game.

Originally posted by PositroN:

It still doesn't renew the fact the devs added this in and messed up in some ways with the design. Im not gonna say this guy is completely right but really its like this:
Pylons were intended to easily get rid of the time waste which comes from making a teleport system, or a skyline rail

And they are. There is no negative effect on the game or the gameplay if you set up houses for 2-3 NPCs at one biome. No. 0. Niente. Nothing.
Pylons are insanely easy to set up, have 0 drawbacks and are a huge time saver.
Anyone who disagrees is objectively wrong.
"But muh pretty city is not pretty if I make small houses" - Well, that is your personal aesthetic reason and has nothing in common with gameplay of Terraria.

It is quite ridiculous how people have the audacity to ♥♥♥♥♥ about something like Pylons. An absolute unit of QoL.

[Fumo Bnnuy n Frends]

Originally posted by Khorzho:

Please everyone. Lets tamp down on the harshness of some of the replies?

This was only an opinion with some facts to back it up. If you like the Pylon system as it is, I respect that. I simply don't see it as a viable option for elaborate towns in existing worlds without a significant amount of reconstruction, and a general 'decentralization' of your NPC population.

i like pylons just not the system and that's really taking away from their usefulness (especially the universal pylon).

i.e. needing to make npcs happy enough to sell them and having npcs close enough to be able to use them. That and the universal pylon requirements are sorta...redundant (can't think of the right word) with all that trouble you go to in order to 100% the bestiary may as well finish the game by then why bother with the pylon.

Pylons themselves work okay but the requirements and setup really hinder their usefulness and i get annoyed seeing people say how they require less effort/work than sky rails or teleporters.

May as well just find or craft a ton of teleport potions and get randomly spawned into the map.


side note:
not sure why they didn't just make them craftable with those large gems or something? Would've given much better use to gems than just vanity or cosmetic appeal (lets face it post hardmode there really isn't much use for diamonds amber emeralds the whole wagon of them. Then again there wasn't really much use for them pre-hardmode after you do your first dungeon raid and get all these crazy items. They even added gem trees making them somewhat farm-able and just a couple more steps to make the pylons craftable. Hell you even got 1 type of each gem to correspond to the biomes/can use them to craft for biome specific:

amber=desert

emerald=forest or jungle (maybe add some spores and bingo jungle gem pylon)

amethyst=corrupt/crimson

topaz=underground (or flip with amber for desert)

ruby=hell

sapphire=ocean (or mushroom biome just add some glowing mushrooms to a new recipe).

diamond=universal or hallow (add some pink gel or something)

[ImHelping]

Pylons are a good idea and the only problems with them are down to the fact NPC unhappiness only exists because "Annoyance=Depth(?)" passing itself off as "No, no, it's to encourage creativity!"

When you build a nice well furnished mansion, but NPCs refuse to sell you pylons until you shove them in a torch lit clay cube because proximity to other NPCs is what REALLY matters, it just makes everyone else trying to claim "You just want to be lazy and aren't creative!" look even more pathetic.

When not being suicidally stupid if you don't essentially glitch them into a tomb by the fact they can teleport to relocate housing, that is. What a world when it's often safer for NPCs to live right above hell by your original hellavator, than it is to put them in a normal biome half the time.

Teleporters are still handy, but also just boring and annoying to set up. You're paying a busywork tax not just for setup, but for any revisions of your home and outpost locations. Even journey mode options so you don't need to keep buying stacks and stacks of wire don't change that.

But, teleporters are still a godsend if you want custom exact location transport during events that turn off pylons. So at least, they still have an effort=reward usage out of them if you have some permanent long term plans.

Both existing at the same time is better than some slap fight "no we only need ONE kind!" and as much as I love the beach conch, that's just not the same and is is less valuable the larger your map size is.

[Jostabeere]

Originally posted by ImHelping:

When you build a nice well furnished mansion, but NPCs refuse to sell you pylons until you shove them in a torch lit clay cube because proximity to other NPCs is what REALLY matters, it just makes everyone else trying to claim "You just want to be lazy and aren't creative!" look even more pathetic.

I do love when I live in a luxurious mansion that has no lights. I bet I can simply live off of stubbing my toes on all the luxurious furniture.