question on armor penetration

[Sebastian]

now that there is an upgrade to the shark tooth necklace that can be equipped along with it AND the sharpening station got buffed to give a total possible AP of 22, I am unsure of one important thing:

if your armor penetration is higher than the armor of an enemy, does it work like negative armor, or is any AP above enemy armor useless on that enemy?

[CrescentMouse]

I feel like AP above armor would be useless, I don't know what negative armor would even do but to be honest, none of us would really know unless we spent a while trying to figure out lol

[Sebastian]

Originally posted by CrescentMouse:

I don't know what negative armor would even do

the same thing positive armor does, factor into damage calculations.

Originally posted by CrescentMouse:

none of us would really know unless we spent a while trying to figure out lol

and I am asking if someone already did. AP has been out for a while, it isnt new in 1.4.

[jungus]

It shouldn't effect it. The damage formula is:
net damage = attack damage - (defense * 0.5)

This means that if an enemy had 20 defense, and you dealt 50, the formula would be:
40 = 50 - (20 * 0.5)

With 22 AP, that would essentially set the targets defense from 20 to 0.

The formula then would be:
50 = 50 - (0 * 0.5)

Because defense cannot go below 0, it will not add extra damage
(source: https://terraria.gamepedia.com/Defense )

The best way to look at AP is that every 2 points is equal to 1 extra damage. This means that 22 AP is = 11 extra damage against enemies with a defense of 22+.

[Sebastian]

Originally posted by FunkyFlesh:

It shouldn't effect it. The damage formula is:
[..]
Because defense cannot go below 0, it will not add extra damage

it shouldnt or it will not?
I know how damage is calculated. I just want to know if having more AP than enemy defense is treated as if the enemy has negative defense.

[jungus]

Originally posted by Sebastian:

Originally posted by FunkyFlesh:

It shouldn't effect it. The damage formula is:
[..]
Because defense cannot go below 0, it will not add extra damage

it shouldnt or it will not?
I know how damage is calculated. I just want to know if having more AP than enemy defense is treated as if the enemy has negative defense.

As far as I can find, it won't increase your damage further. However, because most enemies have defense it will almost always increase your overall damage. It just won't add any extra.

[JebKerman]

Originally posted by Sebastian:

Originally posted by FunkyFlesh:

It shouldn't effect it. The damage formula is:
[..]
Because defense cannot go below 0, it will not add extra damage

it shouldnt or it will not?
I know how damage is calculated. I just want to know if having more AP than enemy defense is treated as if the enemy has negative defense.

I guess you could take it to the target dummy and see if it makes your numbers bigger.

[Sebastian]

Originally posted by FunkyFlesh:

As far as I can find, it won't increase your damage further. However, because most enemies have defense it will almost always increase your overall damage. It just won't add any extra.

still not a definitive answer, but alright.
yes, I know most enemies have some defense.
my situation is, if I am using melee weapons in prehardmode, I want to know if just the sharpening station is enough for certain enemies or if AP accs are always useful.
also, your damage calculation isnt completely true, it only applies to normal (and maybe journey?) mode, not expert and master.

Originally posted by JebKerman:

I guess you could take it to the target dummy and see if it makes your numbers bigger.

I started a new playthrough and have yet to find a sharpening station or get two shark tooth necklaces from blood moons. a single one isnt enough to outweigh damage randomness IMO.

[jungus]

Originally posted by Sebastian:

still not a definitive answer, but alright.
yes, I know most enemies have some defense.
my situation is, if I am using melee weapons in prehardmode, I want to know if just the sharpening station is enough for certain enemies or if AP accs are always useful.
also, your damage calculation isnt completely true, it only applies to normal (and maybe journey?) mode, not expert and master.

"Enemies have a defense statistic just like players do, but they do not gain more protection from defense in Expert. Enemies will always reduce incoming damage by 50% of their defense regardless of difficulty."
(source: https://terraria.gamepedia.com/Defense )

Sharpening Station would be all you need. Expert/Master doesn't seem to radically increase enemies defense, so the Sharpened Buff with the Stinger Necklace would let you negate the extra defense from Expert/Master while still gaining the full effects from the Sharpening Station. After entering Hardmode, it would be best to replace the Necklace with a different accessory.

Using both has diminishing returns.