Erannorth Reborn

Erannorth Reborn

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Tchey Dec 29, 2019 @ 4:13am
Over sexualization
Hello,

I really like the game, i'm at about 14 hours in, and i guess more to come.
It's one of the best game of this type i've played so far, really.

One of the most common comment i get from the people i show the game to, is about the sexyness of the avatar.

It's not "oh it's sexy i want to play".

It's more like "weird, it's too sexy, it is actually deserving the game, as it's too obvious as i first sight, and it kind of hide the gameplay behind a pair of melons (is Steam really sensoring bosoms names tits ?"

I just wanted to share these reactions.
Last edited by Tchey; Dec 29, 2019 @ 4:15am
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Showing 1-15 of 15 comments
[ER] Raven  [developer] Dec 29, 2019 @ 5:33am 
Yes I am aware that people prefer to have only one option rather than 65 and then complain because they have no options.

Or to have 65 and complain because some of them are not to their liking.

Or to have the full freedom to use their own art and still complain, because that's our sorry society we live in.

What I don't understand is why use them in the first place????

Everything is moddable to adjust as you see fit.

And why did you choose one of the sexy avatars????

There is everything for everyone. I am sure you could find something modest among them.

You can even use your own photos and art. Or ask permission from deviant art and use AAA art in everything from cards to portraits. I can't do that. But you can as it will be for personal use.

You can also disable the vanilla portraits through the ModManager/Settings. Just uncheck the portraits from there.
Last edited by [ER] Raven; Dec 29, 2019 @ 5:47am
Tchey Dec 29, 2019 @ 5:49am 
Yep i know all that, i only paste what they say, very often.

It's the first sight, the first impression, and i "must" tell them not to worry, the game is not a clickbait with big bossoms, it's really nice to actually play it.

My "concern", if any, is just that : many players may see the game as a bait, and so, don't even bother to try it, despite its greatness.

In some way it's similar to Age of Fear, the arts is quite bad, the cover is a oversizedboobed naked girl, but the game is one of the best turn based tactical i've played.

I just think you should be aware of the effect it can have on potential consumers, if you are not already.

Originally posted by Raven:
And why did you choose one of the sexy avatars

I think she is pretty and one of the best female faces of them all. Also, that was, really, an experiment. The video has 5 times the views i usually do in a similar setup. My second video, i play with the big fat guy, as an Nephilim + Inquisitor, and a mod to change the enemies.
Last edited by Tchey; Dec 29, 2019 @ 5:55am
[ER] Raven  [developer] Dec 29, 2019 @ 7:21am 
Thanks Tchey, I appreciate your concern, but you forget:

a) that I have a backend that displays sales & refunds.

You know that message we write when we refund a game on steam and pour all our poison? To explain to steam why we want the money back to buy a new game? The devs are the ones that actually read that. Steam would refund even if we didn't spill our poison there.

So I am aware what those who refunded in the not fun category didn't like in the majority: the gameplay. They found it either simplistic, lacking strategy or too complex for their taste. And there is absolutely nothing I want to do to change their mind. In my book it's their loss.

b) the consumers you mention aren't part of the target audience, so I don't care on the effect on them. I am not trying to sell the game to them. And if you read my post-EA announcement. I never tried to sell it to anyone.

https://steamcommunity.com/games/1055990/announcements/detail/1555357052102650811

Neither I hang around pointing guns at people to buy it.

I explicitly tagged this game with nudity and age-gated it for a reason: Anyone who don't enjoy such content shouldn't look for games in this category in the first place.

And those who do, are well aware of what they may find and in most cases hope for more than there actually is. ALWAYS. So this game has & targets certain tags. Nudity is one of them.

And there is much much more adult content hidden in game, that you have to know how to mod, or use a mod to uncover.

As for over-sexualization as a term, it doesn't make any sense to begin with.

Is not only implied but part of what you sign up for by buying an age-gated game.

This is what I had to check to get the age gate: <b>Yes, this product has content typically considered mature. This includes games with content such as graphic violence, frequent nudity, sexual content, and other mature topics.</b>

So no click baits here. I never said this game is anything that there isn't. And despite I appreciate the concern, to make things clear, I still find this topic offensive.

If I wanted a non-adult game or to target minors, or people who don't like skimpy outfits and boobs in their games I would have also made it so. And I wouldn't have checked this box. You wouldn't have to pass an age gate to be here (!)

c) If I wanted to get rich, I would have picked a different profession.

And talking about this particular industry, If I wanted click-bait money grab, and had the stupidity to go for a single player card game: I would have 200 handpainted cards, 50 enemies & 3 characters with a single portrait and a ready to use card game engine.

Not only I would get away with it, but spending the rest of the time in marketing would have made it a GOTY by now. It's ironic how the crowd you mention would be happier.

But again, it wouldn't make me happier. Because I made Erannorth to be exactly the game I want to be playing in my free time.

So if you look for more adult content, I can point you in the right direction because this is an adult game, it has fan-service and I personally like and enjoy skimpy outfits. I am a depraved old man and proud of it.

Otherwise, if you look for less mature content. Disable it or mod it away.

The fact that you can is an optional bonus, I didn't have to include in the game.
Tchey Dec 29, 2019 @ 8:02am 
Thanks for you long detailled point of view.

I just want to say again that i, me, myself, don't care and enjoy the game a lot. I just read several feedbacks mentioning the matter, and wanted to talk about it as a global topic, not my own personal issue.

pascal.difolco Jan 2, 2020 @ 11:57am 
I suspect that just offering a vanilla non-skimpy/sexy set of avatars and enemies will solve this...
Personally I refrain from playing the game when my wife is around :steamsad: ...
[ER] Raven  [developer] Jan 2, 2020 @ 1:52pm 
I think I will. But since the artwork I have in mind is quite expensive will probably have to give it as a paid DLC.

(Which between us doesn't make any sense for anyone to buy, because it's really easy for everyone to make such a set for personal use and use AAA artworks I could never afford to begin with.)

How easy?

a) Go to Deviant Art pick the graphics you like.

(I don't think any artist would mind as long as it's for personal use & your eyes only, but you can always send a pm and ask. Especially if you plan on making it into a public mod. ;)

b) crop them 330x330 and put them in:

\Content\Mods\My Art\CustomArtworks\Enemies\

i.e \Content\Mods\My Art\CustomArtworks\Enemies\Abaddon.png will replace Abaddon.

(And same for portraits but crop them into 231x575.) And put them here:

\Content\Mods\My Art\Ragdolls\Male\
\Content\Mods\My Art\Ragdolls\Female\

You can also find great artwork for personal use in mods for other games.

Like the Pathfinder portraits for example here:

https://www.nexusmods.com/pathfinderkingmaker/mods/categories/3/

(There are literally thousands of portraits all perfectly suitable to adapt. But if you plan on using them in a mod, you should ask permission from the original modder.)
Last edited by [ER] Raven; Jan 2, 2020 @ 3:44pm
XAERONOHN Jan 16, 2020 @ 10:21am 
Respectfully, some of us really, really enjoy the game and would love to have a tamed down version of the artwork so that we could play it when our kids are around, or when the wives are around and not have to explain ourselves about why we're always on 'this' game. Quite frankly I'm too damned lazy to mod it all myself.

You have an amazing, real gem of a game here and I think your support to ER as an indy developer is second to none. If you put forth the time and effort, I for one would certainly buy the classier, less skimpy artwork if it was available as DLC. I have no problem supporting great devs.
[ER] Raven  [developer] Jan 16, 2020 @ 10:58am 
@XAERONOHN There is already such a mod in the Workshop. Just subscribe to it ;)
XAERONOHN Jan 16, 2020 @ 11:19am 
Originally posted by Raven:
@XAERONOHN There is already such a mod in the Workshop. Just subscribe to it ;)

Will that include the newest DLC though?
[ER] Raven  [developer] Jan 16, 2020 @ 12:02pm 
If the original modder update it, it will.

I am not sure you understand how much time is involved in creating those portraits you don't like, or how much it would cost to commission a real artist.

But it's not about time or effort is about resources. I have spent over 2300 coding & play-testing this game. And over 400 hours rendering those portraits you don't like.

Me spending 400 extra hours rendering 400 new enemy portraits I won't enjoy, or buying them for 60.000$ and then selling this DLC for 60$ hoping that 1000 people will buy it and I will get even, is not going to help anyone. Certainly not the longevity of this game.

And everyone will still go and replace them anyway. Because they can & they will find better versions suiting their personal taste.

I already mentioned in the DLC announcement how the art is going to be and urged everyone who doesn't like it or is too lazy to spend a day changing those artworks to skip it.

I am here to give you the things you can't code or mod. Not sell you things you can change in a heartbeat.

For those who don't know the how:

Step 1: Go to Nexus (Pathfinder Nexus https://www.nexusmods.com/pathfinderkingmaker/mods/categories/3/ has awesome portraits you can use) or Deviant Art

Step 2: Download those you like and crop them at 330x330

Step 3: Ask for permission from the artist/modder or don't share it with anyone else as you'll be violating the artists copyrights.

Step 4: Export in the folder:

Content/Mods/My Art Replacement/CustomArtworks/Enemies matching the enemy name

i.e Content/Mods/My Art Replacement/CustomArtworks/Enemies/Abaddon.png

Step 5: Enjoy!

Having done that for the around 500 enemies i am using in my game, it takes less than 4-5 hours (!)
Last edited by [ER] Raven; Jan 16, 2020 @ 12:30pm
XAERONOHN Jan 16, 2020 @ 1:06pm 
Fair enough
Gurrflumfr Jan 16, 2020 @ 6:43pm 
This sounds like a job for the Flumfr!

Seriously though while I want Raven to get as much money as possible from this to increase the chances of additional development/projects this game is definitely targeting a very specific audience. I share the sentiment of not being able to show or recommend the game within most social circles (which makes it really weird to not tell people what game I'm modding) which often won't be fixed by an enemy replacement mod.

I probably won't be making an art replacement mod, I use one of my creation cobbled together very quickly just to replace the primary offenders of the issue so I could stream the game. I only really mod this game because I enjoy it, getting to play the race/classes I want for the sake of the story I build in my head while playing is a bonus. After all over 2/3 of my hours in the game at this point are me having the game open while modding. The most tiresome and problematic part of the process for me (which is purely personal failure) is image editing. If I'm going to make a mod chances are it'll be card-related, so unless people come knocking on my door demanding art replacement mods from me someone else will have to do it so everyone can play the game without fearing friends and family. I'd encourage trying it though, it really speeds up after 2-3 images.
[ER] Raven  [developer] Jan 16, 2020 @ 9:49pm 
@Gurrflumfr if you have Photoshop you can try my secret technique below ;)

(Haven't used GIMP in the last decade but I guess process should be similar.)

It takes less than 30 mins for 300+ images assuming of course you have them (at least once you get the hang of it). For a class set a blink of an eye ;)

1) Create an empty document 330x330
2) Select 30 or more artworks in windows explorer (depending your PC power) and drop them all inside the blank canvas. (Don't hit Enter to place them.)
3) Shift+Alt+Drag the top corner handler of the first towards the direction you want to resize it, till the subject is on the center and the canvas fully covered. Press enter when happy. Each image should take a few seconds.
4) Repeat for all the images in your stack.
5) Once all are placed, click on the layers and name them as the cards or enemies they are going to replace (if you haven't already named them before placement ie during the download step)
6) Select the first layer & shift click on the last. While all selected, Right click one of them and choose Export.

All 30+ of them will get exported to a temp folder of your choice. Move the ready files to your mod folder. Repeat with the next 30 images stack.
Last edited by [ER] Raven; Jan 16, 2020 @ 10:03pm
IchigoMait Aug 5, 2020 @ 4:02pm 
@Raven
Question was reading through half this thread, and noticed you mentioned something about modding to uncover hidden content.

"And there is much much more adult content hidden in game, that you have to know how to mod, or use a mod to uncover."

Could you direct me to this mod and etc. I looked at the pinned modding posts nothing there indicating hidden official content.
[ER] Raven  [developer] Aug 5, 2020 @ 9:56pm 
Hi IchigoMait, there is an 'official' playable class called Temptress, which you can find the necessary Mod files to unlock it in Nexus.

https://www.nexusmods.com/erannorthreborn/mods/14

It contains full nudity and suggestive, sexual themes though, so keep that in mind if you decide to download it.

If you do download v2.1

In the game install path locate the Streaming Assets/Content/Expansion folder and create in there a new 'Adult Content' folder, then place the .conf file you downloaded there.

Last edited by [ER] Raven; Aug 5, 2020 @ 10:06pm
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