Birdnado Discussion

[Yuga-Suggah]

The original goal of Beak Performance is somewhat difficult to get because without any expansions, 120 is about double the average win condition win score.

Typically to get this achievement, you have to have a combination of high value bird cards, mixed with high value goal cards, with some amount of tucking due to both hunting and tucking. From what I remember, food caching wasn't really a viable strat until European expansion and even then, really isn't as good until you get into Oceanic.

Some good combinations of course is combining high value rat required cards (the eagles, horned owl, Great Egret to Wood Stork Combo, KillDear/Raven(maybe both of them)) and combine them with omnivore and the rat card. Or use some of the run off of your gained food from your Raven(s) and place a Sandhill Crane and Cat Bird to use two seeds to tuck 4 cards, plus lay 2 eggs(6 points per turn) of course, combine some of the double egg layers with high egg nests(Meadowlark to Wild Turkey).

The point is that it's not that unreachable for 120. Pretty difficult on Non-Expansion, doable on European, and likely somebody is getting 120 within 5 games with Oceanic.

That 180, though. I GUESS this is double the range of good point score for European. I don't think I have ever seen scores that high without theory crafting or set up of the deck. I have seen bird totals at 100, I have seen tucking go to 70ish, I have seen seen food cache values close to 60, I have seen bonus cards go up to about 40ish or so. I have never seen 175 broken on Oceanic without scoring the nectar values and without intentional manipulation of the board.

I mean, there are a lot of great cards now. A lot of them basically tuck 1 card in your hand for every bird in your row. Or cache a rat in supply for every hunter bird somebody has at round end. And those can definately get your tuck at 70, maybe food cache.

But to get to 180 implies some either luck or some serious strategy very early. Any thoughts on how to get to 180 either online, or offline?

[OwlAtollah]

The only crazy way I could see to get this to work would be tucking cards. I just did 88 cards for the 70 card challenge using the wetland and mute swan that tucks 3 at a time and using 3 other birds that also tucked 1 bird (yellow headed blackbird tucked one and gave one egg so I could use the egg to draw 4 cards at the start of every turn, and one bird that was a gull that let me tuck 1 and take one), and 1 mallard that gave 2 cards at a round. That gave me 6 birds and 6 tucked each round. So it took roughly 14 rounds to get to 88, It required no wasted effort from the start, and luckily other players were giving me food to make it doable. I ended up with 119 because I had the bonus for waterbirds and mine were all the right waterbirds and I won a late round that was for most waterbirds. So dumb luck helps.

But I got to thinking if I had the chaffinch that tucks 5 cards at a time, and added a (catbird to repeat a power), you could tuck 10 cards at a time. The hard part would be drawing 10 birds to feed it each round. But you could play 3 cards that gain 2 cards ( for 6 cards), plus the starting cards which are 3 (or 4 if you had a way to add eggs). This would give you 9 of the ten cards for each round. If you used the catbird instead to draw 2 cards on the first round you would end up playing 5 and drawing 11 for a surplus of 6. These could be used one per round over the next 6 plays allowing the catbird and finch to play 10 for the next 6 rounds. This would mean in 7 rounds (having 65 cards tucked). So this would take 20 rounds to get to 180. But it requires getting many key cards early, so not very realistic. But there are also cards that will tuck a card for each round when a tucked card it played by your opponent. That card got me 10 tucked cards in one game, which if played early could help, but in my case I ended up with 69 cards tucked, before I caught on. ((I lost ground playing this because I had to get food, eggs, and then play it) For the above you want cards like the mallard (1 food to play, then 2 cards drawn per turn). But the goal is to only play the waterbirds or maybe 1 added hummer in the food/forest to save food turns. One of the European sparrows gives you free wheat every time someone takes a food. You can then exchange the wheat as you go so that you never have to visit the forest after playing it. There is also an end of the round card that lays up to 5 eggs in a habitat that doesn't have eggs. Since you will be egg poor in this game, that might help keep the catbird reaching the 10 point average per turn. But all this would really require being given a catbird or mockingbird AND the Chaffinch in or near your starting hand.

So to get to 180 I don't think you could do it with just tucking, but what ever it will require some combo of 10 point plays, on every play, for 18 rounds. Which is really on the edge of possible.

[jungle.james]

Probably just needs Oceania, or other players boosting.

[Yuga-Suggah]

Originally posted by OwlAtollah:

So to get to 180 I don't think you could do it with just tucking, but what ever it will require some combo of 10 point plays, on every play, for 18 rounds. Which is really on the edge of possible.

There are ways "add" more time, but are kinda nutzo plays and definitely boosting. So you "could" have another person play a bunch of hunting birds, and you play the Carrion Crow and the Griffon Vulture. The ability to play both the crow and the vulture are very VERY doable. Have something like the crow, the vulture, and the great crested flycatcher.
In an extreme example,
Round 1- Player one plays great crested fly catcher on turn one, gets worm and something else on turn two. Plays crow on ocean on turn three, vulture on plains in turn four. Eggs on five. Catches either high value cards, a food booster or Snow Bunting/European Goldfinch on three to five. Food on six. Play on forest or plains seven. Something on turn 8. Player two plays 4 low level hunting birds. Player 3 plays birds enabling some form of tucking for every round before the end of round 1. Player one gets 8 points.
Round 2- Player one plays the bunting, and or European within 3 turns. Player two plays 4 more hunting birds totaling to 8 birds. Player 3 tucks at turn 3. Player one gets 16 points from hunting birds and 8 from tucks.
Round 3-Player two plays 4 more hunting birds. Player three tucks. Player one gets 24 points and 12 from tucks.
Round 4- Player two plays 4 more hunting birds, Player one gets 32 points and 10 from tucks.
Final Score- 80 points for two birds alone and 30 from tucks minus 6 for the crow, and 9 for the vulture, 5 for the bunting, and 4 from the goldfinch to account for four ten point plays, so 86 points of extra points to play with.

The problem with this kind of play is that I have NEVER seen somebody play exclusively hunting birds and have another tuck to kingmake somebody else. There are more than 16 hunting birds sure, but god lord does all of that seem impossible.

[Chef Longhorn]

Originally posted by Yuga-Suggah:

Originally posted by OwlAtollah:

So to get to 180 I don't think you could do it with just tucking, but what ever it will require some combo of 10 point plays, on every play, for 18 rounds. Which is really on the edge of possible.

There are ways "add" more time, but are kinda nutzo plays and definitely boosting. So you "could" have another person play a bunch of hunting birds, and you play the Carrion Crow and the Griffon Vulture. The ability to play both the crow and the vulture are very VERY doable. Have something like the crow, the vulture, and the great crested flycatcher.
In an extreme example,
Round 1- Player one plays great crested fly catcher on turn one, gets worm and something else on turn two. Plays crow on ocean on turn three, vulture on plains in turn four. Eggs on five. Catches either high value cards, a food booster or Snow Bunting/European Goldfinch on three to five. Food on six. Play on forest or plains seven. Something on turn 8. Player two plays 4 low level hunting birds. Player 3 plays birds enabling some form of tucking for every round before the end of round 1. Player one gets 8 points.
Round 2- Player one plays the bunting, and or European within 3 turns. Player two plays 4 more hunting birds totaling to 8 birds. Player 3 tucks at turn 3. Player one gets 16 points from hunting birds and 8 from tucks.
Round 3-Player two plays 4 more hunting birds. Player three tucks. Player one gets 24 points and 12 from tucks.
Round 4- Player two plays 4 more hunting birds, Player one gets 32 points and 10 from tucks.
Final Score- 80 points for two birds alone and 30 from tucks minus 6 for the crow, and 9 for the vulture, 5 for the bunting, and 4 from the goldfinch to account for four ten point plays, so 86 points of extra points to play with.

The problem with this kind of play is that I have NEVER seen somebody play exclusively hunting birds and have another tuck to kingmake somebody else. There are more than 16 hunting birds sure, but god lord does all of that seem impossible.

This actually might be doable playing a local game as multiple human players... not very fun but this achievement is outrageous XD

[skf_mikeweber]

Originally posted by Chef Longhorn:

This actually might be doable playing a local game as multiple human players... not very fun but this achievement is outrageous XD

Just got the achievement and that is exactly how I did it.

My score: 59 Birds / 25 Bonus / 20 End of Round Goals / 40 Eggs / 21 Food on Cards / 16 Tucked Cards {181}

Player 1 had 3 birds (all in the field)
* Bluethroat {all players get a food selected by P1}
* Common Nightingale {all players get a food selected by P1}
* Eastern Phoebe {all players get a worm}

Player 2 had 1 bird in the forest
* Pileated Woodpacker {P2 gets 2 eggs in box nests; all other players get 1 egg in a box nest}

Player 3 had 1 bird in the wetlands
* Spotted Sandpiper {all players draw 1 card from the deck}

I had P1-P3 clear the tray until a bird showed up that was attractive.

My bonus cards were:
Historian - birds named after a person (2x per bird x 4 = 8 points}
Wetland Scientist - birds that can only live in the wetlands (5 birds - 7 points)
Wildlife gardener - Birds with cup nests (8 birds for 7 points)
Backyard birds - Birds worth less than 4 points (6 birds for 3 points).

I messed up the second round and tied with another player, so that was 3 points instead of 5. I also got Backyard birds as a last minute bonus pull, so couldn't max that out.

My birds were
Forest
Yellow hammer (use all 4 actions, play a bird at end of round)
Steller's Jay (Gain 1 grain from birdfeeder - only played b/c of Historian)
Common Chaffinch (tuck up to 5 cards from hand)
Spotted Owl (draw 2 bonus, keep 1)
Baltimore Oriole (all players get a berry) {played for points}
Grasslands
(*) Eurasian Magpie {EoR - choose one other player, for each egg laying action, cache 1 food from supply on any bird}
Moltoni's Warbler {use all 4 actions, play a bird at end of round}
(*) Hooded Crow {Choose 1 other player. For each egg laying action, tuck 1 card from hand and draw an equal # of cards.
House Wren {Play another bird}
Lazuli Bunting {Lay 2 eggs on cup nest birds, other players lay one}
Wetlands
Clark's Grebe {Draw one card / discard 1 card}
Great Crested Grebe {Draw 1 card for each empty slot. Keep 1 discard rest}
Forster's Tern {Draw 1 card / discard 1 card}
Wood Stork {Draw 2 bonus cards, keep 1}
King Rail {Draw 2 bonus cards, keep 1}

What really helped was the cache food / tuck cards for each egg laying action another player made. The hooded Crow got 13 tucked cards and most of the 21 points in cached food came from the Magpie.

I had to restart the game 30 or 40 times before I got the right combination.

[Chef Longhorn]

Just got the achievement myself after consulting the wingspan discord. Essentially I played all 5 boards to boost 1 player.

End birds were:

Forest - empty

Grasslands -killdeer, american crow, european goldfinch, hooded crow

Wetlands - Mute Swan, Purple Martin, Greater Flamingo, Sandhill Crane

Final score was 190 - 28 birds, 7 bonus, 6 round goals, 149 tucks XD

This was not fun lol... took about 10 games once I figured out what needed to be done.

Now I can play the game!

[Vaerosi]

I'm trying to get this achievement following the suggestions of playing all 5 boards...but with all the pink and brown powers triggering it's skipping turns and ending rounds early. For example in my current game one player used all six action cubes somehow because it was skipping around, so the round ended early with all four other players still having 1 or 2 action cubes unused. Very frustrating.

[skf_mikeweber]

Originally posted by Vaerosi:

I'm trying to get this achievement following the suggestions of playing all 5 boards...but with all the pink and brown powers triggering it's skipping turns and ending rounds early. For example in my current game one player used all six action cubes somehow because it was skipping around, so the round ended early with all four other players still having 1 or 2 action cubes unused. Very frustrating.

Vaerosi,

Sorry to hear about your issues. In my 213 point run using the Greater Flamingo, I was able to achieve this with just brown powers (and a Ruff). In fact, all that was needed was:
P1: All players get an egg on a cup nest (Lazuli Bunting)
P2: All Players draw a card from the deck + Wetland cube (Northern Shovleler)
P3: All Players get a worm (Eastern Pheobe) and a Fish (Osprey)
P4:

• Forest
  
  • Empty
• Grasslands
  
  • Ruff (tuck 3 cards and draw 3 cards at end of round)
• Wetlands
  
  • Greater Flamingo (tuck a card for each wetland cube P2 has)
    
  • Gray Catbird (repeat a brown power)
    
  • American White Pelican (discard a fish to tuck 2 deck cards)
    
  • House Finch (tuck a card / draw a card)
    
  • Mute Swan (tuck 3 cards / draw a card).

As you can see, a pretty minimalist setup - but it required the Greater Flamingo in the starting hand (or visible in the first 3 birds).

[Yippo the Clown]

Considering it's basically impossible without abusing local multiplayer, it seems like this achievement is pretty pointless. Personally, I'd like to see it reworked in some way - after all, it has a 0% global achievement rate for a reason!

[joeandjulie]

Originally posted by Yippo the Clown:

Considering it's basically impossible without abusing local multiplayer, it seems like this achievement is pretty pointless. Personally, I'd like to see it reworked in some way - after all, it has a 0% global achievement rate for a reason!

This is precisely what I was thinking also. I LIKE the achievements aspect of the game BUT they have to be within normal play parameters. In the original/pre-European expansion, I did get the 120 achievement and thought was pretty amazing. 180, without significant help and luck, doesn't seem real.

[ephemeraltoast]

Originally posted by Yippo the Clown:

Considering it's basically impossible without abusing local multiplayer, it seems like this achievement is pretty pointless. Personally, I'd like to see it reworked in some way - after all, it has a 0% global achievement rate for a reason!

Yes, I agree. I think most of the achievements, even the grindier ones, are at least somewhat fun to work for, but this one just seems like a horrible slog.

[chuck]

I got the achievement today, scored 218 points.

[Soymix]

just got 203 playing local. Playing with four human characters is fairly key to acquire a diversity of cards but not expend the deck so as to limit tucking potential. This also limits the amount of time you use attempting it.

in order to not spend hours on this (took 1 hour on the first go) i took a few attempts ensuring the starting hands were set up for success. It was about on the third cycle that there was the common loon, one of the humming birds and the western meadow lark amongst the other players. This ensured resources, cards and eggs were being supplied to the player to score plus 180.

I got lucky the player maxing out started with the Sprague's Pipit, Cerulean warbler and the white throated dipper so it could get more bonus cards and discard cards that I found useless to support the main character.

Throughout the game, the player scoring big picked up cards that either had high points (Eastern imperial eagle, trumpeter swan) played multiple cards at once (eastern bluebird, Great Egret) or tucked a crap ton of cards (common chaff finch).

[treacleandink]

Late to the party but I just wanted to chime in that I finally got 100% on this game, with Birdnado being the last and most challenging achievement. I have no idea how it would be possible without cheesing it by playing against yourself as others have mentioned. I did it with 3 human players. One focused solely on giving my main player eggs with Princess Stephanie's Astrapia + a magpie to repeat that power. The other was set up as a dual-purpose food engine and card clearer; I would keep drawing the face-up cards until something good showed up for my main player, all the while filling my food stores. This had the added bonus of allowing me to keep adding to the engine when I saw more "all players" get food or "select a player" to give food to. That allowed me to focus on playing high-value cards and cards that let me get more bonus cards. Since my primary player wasn't playing my own eggs or taking food, I didn't bother playing cards with powers in the forest or plains, and I focused on playing cards with 7+ points in those areas. The primary scoring came from bird value (over 90 points) and bonus cards (over 40 points, can't remember how many exactly.) Some of my favorite cards for this were Black Noddy, Atlantic Puffin, and Gould's Finch. While the latter is low-value, it has the invaluable game-end power of playing a bird, allowing me to squeeze in one or two extra birds with whatever food, eggs, and cards I have left. I opted to play the Kea, which allows you to discard as much food as you want to draw as many bonus cards as you want, which is an excellent endgame move to maximize bonus cards strategically since unused food doesn't add to the score anyway.

[AronFJenks]

It's not impossible without controlling human players.

I have recently had scores of 172 and 176 in 5-player games in which the other 4 players were computer-controlled, not under my control.

And both of those games were only 26 turns, not games with the ":no goal" in round 1.

It's difficult, and I have yet to achieve a true 180 without the type of deck manipulation mentioned above, but I've come close enough that I know I can achieve it.