Various questions of importance

[Ultra glitch power]

First, what kind of DLC and expansion packs can we expect? only cosmetic, or will it be more of a pay-to-win situation?

Second, can we expect dedicated servers to allow fellow computer science enthusiasts to have stable gathering and testing sites? or will it only be pier to pier?


Third, is logic world a sequel to TUNG, or a reboot of the lore canon of the game, or unrelated?
and if so, in what ways?

Fourth, will the challenge mode be similar to Zachtronics style games, with histogram leaderboards, and higher scores for efficiency, or will it be something new and unique?


Fifth, is it likely we will see a challenge maker to allow us to produce our own challenge missions? or will there at least be mod capability for it?

Sixth, will logic world contain DRM? and if so, hopefully not always online DRM.


Seventh, is the art style intended to be minimalistic, or is it a placeholder for something more stylized or realistic? or perhaps there will be texture pack support?

Eighth, are the components intended to only be digital, or will we see analog components in the future?


Ninth, what is the update rate for the components, and is it adjustable?

Tenth, will there be more structural components to dress the electronics with, or will it only be boards?

[Ultra glitch power]

Will mouse hat games, or logic world have an official twitch channel in the future? And if so, when can we expect streams of logic world? Will there be challenge mode speedruns? A documentary on the making of logic world? A computer assembly letsplay? How many episodes would such a letsplay be able to go on for? 200? 500?

On an unrelated subject, How many players could theoretically play on the same server without it becoming an absolute spaghetti disaster? Is it possible the players would form a governing body to divide the land into segments and enforce anti-vandalism laws? Would the chaotic nature of humans prohibit such a thing from happening under ordinary conditions? Or more likely, Could we see pockets of law and order in a vast wasteland of Trolls, Memes, and poor data bus design?...

Im asking about this for a friend...

[Jimmy]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Gary Hivemind:

Will mouse hat games, or logic world have an official twitch channel in the future? And if so, when can we expect streams of logic world

The twitch channel is https://www.twitch.tv/mousehatgames, no idea if or when we'll do anything with it.

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Gary Hivemind:

Will there be challenge mode speedruns?

The challenges are not being designed with speedrunning in mind; they're about figuring out how to do something in the first place rather than figuring out how to do it quickly. If it turns out people enjoy speedrunning them anyway, it wouldn't be too much work to add an (optional) timer and some other basic speedrunning features.

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Gary Hivemind:

A documentary on the making of logic world?

We have no plans for this

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Gary Hivemind:

A computer assembly letsplay? How many episodes would such a letsplay be able to go on for? 200? 500?

I am certain there will be let's plays of Logic World. I don't know how many episodes they will have; you and I will find out together!

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Gary Hivemind:

How many players could theoretically play on the same server without it becoming an absolute spaghetti disaster?

The limiting factor of the server is bandwidth. If the server has a gigabit connection, I could easily see hundreds of players playing comfortably on one server.

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Gary Hivemind:

Is it possible the players would form a governing body to divide the land into segments and enforce anti-vandalism laws? Would the chaotic nature of humans prohibit such a thing from happening under ordinary conditions? Or more likely, Could we see pockets of law and order in a vast wasteland of Trolls, Memes, and poor data bus design?...

Logic World's multiplayer is designed for small groups of friends to play together. But then, so was Minecraft's multiplayer, and we all know how that turned out. Perhaps interesting social structures will emerge in the way you've described; we will have to wait and see.

[Ultra glitch power]

Thanks for all the feedback, It is all totally invaluable.

But also, have some more questions that may or may not be easy to answer...


With a computer which has IO pins, like a raspberry pi, could there be a component ingame with the ability to interact with the IO pins if it was being run on such a computer? And if so, how hard would that be to implement? or would getting Logic world running on a RISK chip architecture be harder in the first place?

Also, with the modding tools, Do you think it is possible to replicate most of the elements of minecraft, and invent a more technical, and less limiting form of minecraft? Or could it be possible for there to be WW2 style team deathmatch mods and servers? Or is the base game just not flexible enough for something like that?


Is it true that only wires, inverters, and switches are all that is necessary for building a complete turing machine? Not only in logic world, but generally aswell? (this is assuming the inverters are unidirectional, and wires can be used as OR gates)

Is a turing machine technically the highest form of computer? is it possible that non-deterministic and/or somewhat irrational and adaptive machines would be better for most applications? (this comparison may be like comparing apples to oranges with humans being able to do things turing machines cant, and vise versa (like humans inventing novel/original things, and having intuition, and turing machines being able to compute fast and accurately (This is of course a gross oversimplification of reality (This is too many nested elaborations))))


Is it probable that in 20-40 years from now, people using 256-Bit computers, or quantum computers will be trying to make a Logic world derivative that is less limiting, and more processor efficient? And if so, would you consider it a compliment for it being successful enough for it, or an insult for them not considering it sufficient?

Will there be speaker components for emitting square wave sounds with frequency based on pulse width modulated input?


Why are games like Logic world so rare, and things like platformers or MMO's so common? do people on average not prefer games of ingenuity or creation? or is it something they do not know that they want?

Is the development for Logic world™ going well? What are the fun parts, and what are the irritating parts?



Also i found this really interesting video i thought you would like, this man, instead of using a real ALU, used an EEPROM and just used an addition truth table, and coded every combination as a register with the stored value being the result. (I consider this to be cheating)
Predictably, he doesnt do the full configuration in the video, just a "quick" demonstration.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BA12Z7gQ4P0

[Ultra glitch power]

I found an ancient record of minecraft beta 1.2 depicting someone going into a minecraft computer in survival mode and trying to survive within it for a night... does this sound as Epic to you as it does to me? (the volume of the video is very low)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mgx_i-CAFwk

[Ultra glitch power]

I actually just located a few other scraps of ancient redstone history...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UF2Vk3RVUls

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGkkyKZVzug

Its amazing how things were in the frontier days of redstone.

[Ultra glitch power]

Do logic world wires have a maximum length, or can they reach arbitrary lengths and send signals at practically infinite speed? And can they reach through objects, or do they require line of sight between the two posts?

[Ultra glitch power]

What recording and video editing software does mousehat games use for recording the Logic world wednesday videos?

[Jimmy]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Gary Hivemind:

With a computer which has IO pins, like a raspberry pi, could there be a component ingame with the ability to interact with the IO pins if it was being run on such a computer?

This would be super cool, if we don't do it in vanilla it will be fairly easy to make as a mod.

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Gary Hivemind:

Also, with the modding tools, Do you think it is possible to replicate most of the elements of minecraft, and invent a more technical, and less limiting form of minecraft?

It depends what you mean by "most of the elements of minecraft". If you mean just the redstone parts, sure, I don't see why not, though I also don't see why you'd want to. If you mean stuff like terrain generation, mobs, crafting, ect... well you could still do it, but it would be more effort than just making a whole new game, so you should probably do that instead.

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Gary Hivemind:

Or could it be possible for there to be WW2 style team deathmatch mods and servers? Or is the base game just not flexible enough for something like that?

Again you could do this but I'm really not sure why you'd want to as opposed to playing an actual competitive fighting game. If you wanted anti-cheat you'd have to add it yourself as we don't have any anti-cheat in vanilla.

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Gary Hivemind:

Is it true that only wires, inverters, and switches are all that is necessary for building a complete turing machine? Not only in logic world, but generally aswell? (this is assuming the inverters are unidirectional, and wires can be used as OR gates)

You can absolutely build a Turing machine with only inverters. The computer you're reading this on is a Turing machine with only inverters.

However, I think to say that inverters are "all that is necessary" for building a Turing machine is a little misleading, as it's entirely possible to build Turing machine without any electronic or digital components at all. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turing_machine

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Gary Hivemind:

Is a turing machine technically the highest form of computer? is it possible that non-deterministic and/or somewhat irrational and adaptive machines would be better for most applications? (this comparison may be like comparing apples to oranges with humans being able to do things turing machines cant, and vise versa (like humans inventing novel/original things, and having intuition, and turing machines being able to compute fast and accurately (This is of course a gross oversimplification of reality (This is too many nested elaborations))))

This is an interesting subject but one I don't think I'm qualified to discuss. I encourage you to join our Discord server[discord.gg]; there are many very intelligent folks over there whom I'm sure would love to talk about this with you.

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Gary Hivemind:

Is it probable that in 20-40 years from now, people using 256-Bit computers, or quantum computers will be trying to make a Logic world derivative that is less limiting, and more processor efficient?

It is certainly possible, but accurately predicting the future of technology, particularly computational technology, is incredibly difficult. This is especially true with the potential imminence of artificial general intelligence. Minds which are trillions of times more intelligent than human minds overthrow all notions of predictability.

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Gary Hivemind:

And if so, would you consider it a compliment for it being successful enough for it, or an insult for them not considering it sufficient?

All art is iterative. Logic World is a giant leap forward for 3D digital logic sims but it is by no means the final form of the genre. I would be first in line to play such a game, and I would be honored to have helped inspire it.

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Gary Hivemind:

Will there be speaker components for emitting square wave sounds with frequency based on pulse width modulated input?

There will definitely be output components for creating sound, more details on how they'll work coming in a future LWW.

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Gary Hivemind:

Why are games like Logic world so rare, and things like platformers or MMO's so common?

Very few people are even aware that digital logic exists as a concept, so it's difficult for them to want a game about it. I've been working on LW for two years, and I'm kind of known IRL for being "that guy who's making a video game", so I've had hundreds of conversations with people where I describe what the game is about. Out of all those only two or three people have immediately been like "oooooh like redstone computers!" or "so like AND gates and stuff?".

This is one of the things I'm hoping to achieve with Logic World, actually. I think digital logic is incredibly beautiful as a concept, and by making digital logic accessible and fun I want to raise public awareness of it and share that sense of beauty.

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Gary Hivemind:

do people on average not prefer games of ingenuity or creation?

I definitely don't think this is the case. Look at the success of Kerbal Space Program, or Factorio, or Rimworld, just to name a few. Humans like to exercise their brains.

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Gary Hivemind:

Is the development for Logic world™ going well? What are the fun parts, and what are the irritating parts?

Yes, development is going well! I'd say the funnest parts are whenever I get a new feature working. The irritating parts are mostly stuff outside the game, like filing taxes on the company and registering trademarks.

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Gary Hivemind:

Also i found this really interesting video i thought you would like, this man, instead of using a real ALU, used an EEPROM and just used an addition truth table, and coded every combination as a register with the stored value being the result. (I consider this to be cheating)
Predictably, he doesnt do the full configuration in the video, just a "quick" demonstration.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BA12Z7gQ4P0

Thanks for the link, very cool!

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Gary Hivemind:

Do logic world wires have a maximum length, or can they reach arbitrary lengths and send signals at practically infinite speed? And can they reach through objects, or do they require line of sight between the two posts?

They have a maximum length, I think it's 40 meters. They do require line of sight between their two pegs. Signal propagation is not just practically infinite but literally infinite, within the constraints of the tick rate.

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Gary Hivemind:

What recording and video editing software does mousehat games use for recording the Logic world wednesday videos?

OBS

[Ultra glitch power]

Someone modded minetest (an open source minecraft derivative) to have its coordinate system exist as a non-euclidean space. more accurately he used polar coordinates to turn the world into a torus, and used some calculus to make the circumference of the torus uniform at all radii.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztAg643gJBA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joFWr3JzBOI

Is something like this possible when modding Logic world? and if so, how do you think the world would behave? what anomalies or phenomena would you see doing ordinary activities in Logic world if the worldspace was a torus? or if it was hyperbolic space? or any other non-flat space?

On a sidenote, what ways could you take advantage of non-euclidean space to optimize a computer, or any other logical circuitry? would wormholes allow for faster memory access or arithmetic? my assumption is yes.

And if the worldspace could be actively warped or altered by a component, how could you take advantage of this to optimize further?

Finally, do you think having a worldspace which is a 3D mobius strip be cool? (like a mobius strip, but the faces are volumes.) the math states such a space would mirror any object that made a full lap around it.

[Ultra glitch power]

Also, how difficult would it be to model non-euclidean space using a logic world computer?

[Ultra glitch power]

These wikipedia pages may either serve to further explain what i mean, or further confuse you...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manifold

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3-manifold

[Ultra glitch power]

Did you know that any N-dimensional space is capable of having curvature, or other forms of distortion? (AKA non-euclidean geometry) one interesting effect of this is how different polygons tile on different curvatures. There is one level of curvature in the hyperbolic end of the spectrum allowing for pentagons to tile seamlessly.

In fact, one way you could measure the curvature of an area in any space of any dimension, is by measuring the ratio of the circumference of a circle in said space, relative to the radius, on earth this ratio is 2PI*R, if this is higher, or lower, the area of the circle also changes.

It is hypothesized that pi is actually a property of the curvature rating of the space earth resides in, or it could be the "true" ratio of a perfectly flat space.

A great example of what i mean is the game HyperRouge:

https://store.steampowered.com/app/342610/HyperRogue/

I certainly recommend taking a look... I wish more people knew about how cool Non-Euclidean geometry is, its like a whole knew frontier.

[benrod]

Interesting read. One of the most important in simulation/crafting open-world games is how they perform when people start building large structures. That's one of the bigger complaints you'll see in their forums. It will challenge you especially using an off-the-shelf game engine.

[Ultra glitch power]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย benrod:

Interesting read. One of the most important in simulation/crafting open-world games is how they perform when people start building large structures. That's one of the bigger complaints you'll see in their forums. It will challenge you especially using an off-the-shelf game engine.

Yes, similarly to how minecraft was pushed to its limits by people doing countless unpredictable, or strange things. Logic world will likely change radically as time passes. And with modding, the number of strange, unlikely events can reach far beyond the bounds of the unmodded game.

And depending on how good at game engine design someone is, making a custom engine fit for a specific game may be less effective than just getting a prefabricated engine that works good enough, then using the the saved effort on game polish. However, with something as nuanced and unpredictable as game design, it may be a waste of time to even try to make extensive plans ahead of time, unless your a AAA development studio.

Also, Whats your opinion on using wormholes and space looping as a means to make more efficient computers? What do you think would be some of the main bottlenecks in design?
I personally predict decoders and memory space to be one of the hardest things to manage, and that wiring and bussing would be mostly trivialized.

[Jimmy]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Gary Hivemind:

Also, how difficult would it be to model non-euclidean space using a logic world computer?

It would be similarly difficult to modeling non-euclidean space in a normal computer. Math doesn't change just because it's happening in a video game :P

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย benrod:

Interesting read. One of the most important in simulation/crafting open-world games is how they perform when people start building large structures. That's one of the bigger complaints you'll see in their forums. It will challenge you especially using an off-the-shelf game engine.

You're right, it was very challenging. We are very much not doing things the way Unity expects you to. Performance and scalability are high priorities for us, and I think you'll be pleased with how well the game handles large structures.