I must be stupid

[Pat Splat]

This is my first time playing a Total War game, and I find the interface to be incredibly clumsy and confusing. I can play Europay Universalis IV and Crusader Kings II no sweat, but I'm constantly struggling with the controls in this game!

In the battle I was just playing, I had a line of troops holding position and set to fire at will so that they would pick off any indian that dared pop his head over the ridge, but instead, they would just stand there and let the indians bumrush them if I didn't force them to attack. Not sure what was going on there... my flanks had no problem at all.

Anyways, I won the battle, but it felt like I won due to AI stupidity... the indians were just running around in circles basically, afraid to approach, and I just let the timer run down.

Is there a good strategy guide out there for beginners?

[dark_horse_spirit]

The AI in the game is very stupid and knows everything, I just played a game where In the first few moves I created a kick an army of 8 reg inf, 1 cannon and 1 general, wouldn't you know it, the computer had in almost the exact same spot as I was going to land 2 horse 2 cannon and 4 upgraded inf, ...♥♥♥♥ that...the AI is a cheating bastard, there is no way that the AI did not know that i was coming..soo, that being said, the real strength for Empires is the Online muliti..The AI blows the big one.

[Friba Kahlo]

http://www.thepressproject.gr/article/57168
try this one for battle tactics and how to use several units

[Pat Splat]

Originally posted by Pisines Bros:

http://www.thepressproject.gr/article/57168
try this one for battle tactics and how to use several units

Thanks, but I think you posted the wrong link???

[Josh]

Well, if you can play a game as convoluted and unnecessarily cluttered as Europa Universalis, then total war games shouldn't be hard to grasp. I'm sure you'll get the hang of it.

I assume the reason your unit "let the enemy rush them" is because they either did fire but hit the hilltop (you can't shoot up hills) or they could not reload in time and you do not have the 'fire by rank' technology researched.

Early battles are slow, units need to reload and cannot fire efficiently. You'll only be able to get a few inconsistent volleys off before close combat if an enemy charges you.

The key to fixing that is acquiring new technology from colleges and universities (upgrade them from a settlement in one of your territories on your campaign map). Once you rearch fire by rank, the army advances a lot and can shoot in organised lines, all at once. Makes battles quite brutal.

[Pat Splat]

Originally posted by Totalwargamer:

I assume the reason your unit "let the enemy rush them" is because they either did fire but hit the hilltop (you can't shoot up hills) or they could not reload in time and you do not have the 'fire by rank' technology researched.

Not the case at all. My units were stationed at the top of a hill at a choke point, freshly loaded and everything. They wouldn't open fire unless I manually told them to. That seemed to work, but it was frustrating watching them stand there with a fire at will order and doing nothing at all.

I think it might have had something to do with the terrain, because oftentimes when I'm trying to position my troops, it gets extremely wonky and never seems to do what I tell it to. I suppose it just takes awhile to get used to?

PS: Your EUIV opinion is unfounded. This game is just a distraction for the time being ;)

[Josh]

It's not unfounded, Europa Univeralis is a horribly structured game, if you're struggling with total war then I don't really understand.

Europa Universalis is needlessly complex with poor explanation and a non existent combat system, unlike the total war games.

One only has to look at the players in-game to see Europa Universalis isn't popular at all. The latest Europa game, number 4, only has 3k players, while Empire: Total War has the exact same...and it was released 5 years ago.

Anyway, back to your point. Interesting that your soldiers did nothing, since they always fire perfectly fine whenever I play. I'd say it has more to do with you having no idea how to command battles properly.

[Pat Splat]

Originally posted by Totalwargamer:

It's not unfounded, Europa Univeralis is a horribly structured game, if you're struggling with total war then I don't really understand.

Europa Universalis is needlessly complex with poor explanation and a non existent combat system, unlike the total war games.

One only has to look at the players in-game to see Europa Universalis isn't popular at all. The latest Europa game, number 4, only has 3k players, while Empire: Total War has the exact same...and it was released 5 years ago.

Anyway, back to your point. Interesting that your soldiers did nothing, since they always fire perfectly fine whenever I play. I'd say it has more to do with you having no idea how to command battles properly.

I don't want to derail the thread, but popularity doesn't necessarily equal quality. If that was the case, we'd all be listening to Beyonce, right? If you need some help getting into EUIV I'll be glad to help if you're interested.

Anyways, I'm going to tinker around with it a bit more. I just find the controls awkward and it's frustrating when I can't seem to position my troops correctly.

[Josh]

Originally posted by dark_horse_spirit:

The AI in the game is very stupid and knows everything, I just played a game where In the first few moves I created a kick an army of 8 reg inf, 1 cannon and 1 general, wouldn't you know it, the computer had in almost the exact same spot as I was going to land 2 horse 2 cannon and 4 upgraded inf, ...♥♥♥♥ that...the AI is a cheating bastard, there is no way that the AI did not know that i was coming..soo, that being said, the real strength for Empires is the Online muliti..The AI blows the big one.

Wtf are you talking about lmao?

The AI on the campign map is very good, especially on difficulty of hard or above. Battle AI is OK, they've make improvements since Empire.

[Josh]

Originally posted by Goggly Gogol:

Originally posted by Totalwargamer:

It's not unfounded, Europa Univeralis is a horribly structured game, if you're struggling with total war then I don't really understand.

Europa Universalis is needlessly complex with poor explanation and a non existent combat system, unlike the total war games.

One only has to look at the players in-game to see Europa Universalis isn't popular at all. The latest Europa game, number 4, only has 3k players, while Empire: Total War has the exact same...and it was released 5 years ago.

Anyway, back to your point. Interesting that your soldiers did nothing, since they always fire perfectly fine whenever I play. I'd say it has more to do with you having no idea how to command battles properly.

I don't want to derail the thread, but popularity doesn't necessarily equal quality. If that was the case, we'd all be listening to Beyonce, right? If you need some help getting into EUIV I'll be glad to help if you're interested.

Anyways, I'm going to tinker around with it a bit more. I just find the controls awkward and it's frustrating when I can't seem to position my troops correctly.

No thanks, I tried the demo and really wanted to get into it. But it was just ridiculously complicated with too much micro management for me and design decisions which were not streamlined and didn't make sense. Sort of reminds me of the original total war, which was released in 2000. Has a similar kind of system to Europa, in a way.

I've played the total war series for a long time now so I feel right at home.

Did you know you can click on a unit, then hold right mouse button and drag? This allows you to make your units formation a thin line, a square block, a long rectangle several rows back, whatever you want.

That helps with positioning troops.

[Pat Splat]

I still can't for the life of me figure out how to control my troops properly! Sometimes I group them, then try to rightclick/drag them into formations but they simply WILL NOT cooperate. Othertimes I remove them from groups and rightclick/drag and that seems to work, but then my army quickly becomes unorganized. Also, I try using the rotate buttons and each individual unit rotates instead of every unit that's selected rotating as a wall.

I'm totally confused with this game. I give simple commands and my units simply refuse to follow direction. Oh yeah, I love it when I send my cavalry to charge after a fleeing unit, turn my back on them and next thing you know, they're running in the opposite direction putting themselves in danger. I haven't a clue what's going on.....

Also, the preset formations seem utterly worthless...

By the way, this is my first Total War game. I really hate the controls, so frustrating...

[Raptor]

Cavalry can be very frustrating. As an enemy unit flees, the men split up and run in different directions. As the cavalry unit has been told to attack that unit, it will chase down ALL men, no matter what direction they are running in.
When units are grouped, terrain takes a big part in where they need to move to get to where you tell them. If there is a cliff in the way, units will bunch together until there is enough room for them to spread out again. I never group my units, I find it easier to move my units one at a time.

[Mike]

Wall of text incoming:

Fire at will:

Originally posted by Goggly Gogol:

Not the case at all. My units were stationed at the top of a hill at a choke point, freshly loaded and everything. They wouldn't open fire unless I manually told them to. That seemed to work, but it was frustrating watching them stand there with a fire at will order and doing nothing at all.

I think it might have had something to do with the terrain, because oftentimes when I'm trying to position my troops, it gets extremely wonky and never seems to do what I tell it to. I suppose it just takes awhile to get used to?

PS: Your EUIV opinion is unfounded. This game is just a distraction for the time being ;)

I'm pretty sure I know what you did. You moved them to where you wanted them and then clicked on "Fire at Will", which actually deactivated their fire at will mode. All infantry have the fire at will option activated by default, you don't have to press the button for them to start firing. So, you pressed the button when it was already enabled and disabled it by accident. To tell if a button is activated or deactivated, it will be highlighted white if activated and have no highlight/blackened if it's deactivated.

It can be a good idea to turn OFF fire at will when moving units around in front of your line infantry or when charging cavalry/melee units past them, but otherwise you're better off not deactivating it.

That said, no unit can fire through another friendly unit without inflicting casualties, so be incredibly careful how you set up your ranks because later when you have better tech you can kill entire units of friendly troops from blue on blue fire.

----------------------------------------------------------

Other toolbar options:

You generally DON'T have to press any of the buttons on the bottom at all, unless the special occasions you want to switch your line infantry to "melee mode" for charging, square formations, changing ammunition type in artillery, and cavalry formations.

----------------------------------------------------------

Formations:

Originally posted by Goggly Gogol:

I still can't for the life of me figure out how to control my troops properly! Sometimes I group them, then try to rightclick/drag them into formations but they simply WILL NOT cooperate. Othertimes I remove them from groups and rightclick/drag and that seems to work, but then my army quickly becomes unorganized. Also, I try using the rotate buttons and each individual unit rotates instead of every unit that's selected rotating as a wall.

I'm totally confused with this game. I give simple commands and my units simply refuse to follow direction. Oh yeah, I love it when I send my cavalry to charge after a fleeing unit, turn my back on them and next thing you know, they're running in the opposite direction putting themselves in danger. I haven't a clue what's going on.....

Also, the preset formations seem utterly worthless...

By the way, this is my first Total War game. I really hate the controls, so frustrating...

Don't use the default/built-in formations options, they're terrible. Manually position your units in deployment and let the enemy come to your line. If you want to arrange your units, select the ones you want to move (hold ctrl+click for specific selections, shift+click for batch selections), and then right-click-drag them into formation at the spot you want them to go to.

If you use the control groups or the "unit grouping" button, it will lock those units into whatever formation they're currently in (or a sloppy mess all over the place if you haven't placed them right), so it's usually a good idea NOT to group your units until you have them in the exact formation you want them to stay in. Basically, if Line Infantry Unit A is in the back of your deployment and Line Infantry Unit B is in line where you want them, and you group them together in control group 1, they will STAY exactly like that, even if you right-click drag with them both selected.

So, don't ctrl+1,2,3,etc units into a group until you're SURE you're happy with how they're positioned. I'd suggest manually moving them all individually anyways.

---------------------------------------------------------

Other things:

Use the pause button to careful give orders to troops in battle to avoid problems with movement.

Make sure the "Guard" command is always on (the shield icon in the toolbar) for your units so they don't go chasing routing enemies across the field. Some Grenadiers have it disabled by default, so be sure to make sure to enabled it for them during deployment.

The arrow buttons (on the toolbar) are for fine-tuning, NOT for mass movement or rotating. Manually select, then right-click drag where and how you want your units to be.

Also, be careful how you position your artillery, place it on high ground and hills when possible to avoid blowing away friendly troops. This can be avoided by using howitzers and mortars, but those take a little while to be able to produce. Generally speaking, howitzers are perfect for supporting infantry and cannons are better for supporting cavalry, due to their longer range.

Cavalry should be used as a sort of "projectile" for targeting weak spots in the enemy line or wavering troops, and then retreating away again. The hammer and anvil tactic is tried and true and still works just as well against line infantry tied up fighting other line infantry. Charge with them, then run them away and charge again. If you keep them in melee, they'll become bogged down and kill enemies much slower, and there's a good chance they'll go ADD on you and try to attack another nearby enemy or draw fire after their current target has been routed. Cuirassiers and heavy cav can generally be left to do whatever they want, but never let Hussars, Uhlans, or Regiment of Horse wander around for too long or there's a good chance they'll end up getting killed.

-------------------------------------------------------

The last thing and most important thing, this game is about micromanagement. You need to micro ALL your units individually. Don't expect a magic "press formation button, right-click enemy" solution to make your army be perfectly positioned and attacking right. If you don't manually control every unit, things will get out of hand FAST. Be aware of what's going on across the entire battlefield, move your units accordingly. Never just select everything and then tell them to go, it will not work and you'll lose.

So, learn to manage ALL your units on their own, without using grouping for anything more than simply organizing units.

[Pat Splat]

Originally posted by Redneck:

Wall of text incoming:

Fire at will:

Originally posted by Goggly Gogol:

Not the case at all. My units were stationed at the top of a hill at a choke point, freshly loaded and everything. They wouldn't open fire unless I manually told them to. That seemed to work, but it was frustrating watching them stand there with a fire at will order and doing nothing at all.

I think it might have had something to do with the terrain, because oftentimes when I'm trying to position my troops, it gets extremely wonky and never seems to do what I tell it to. I suppose it just takes awhile to get used to?

PS: Your EUIV opinion is unfounded. This game is just a distraction for the time being ;)

I'm pretty sure I know what you did. You moved them to where you wanted them and then clicked on "Fire at Will", which actually deactivated their fire at will mode. All infantry have the fire at will option activated by default, you don't have to press the button for them to start firing. So, you pressed the button when it was already enabled and disabled it by accident. To tell if a button is activated or deactivated, it will be highlighted white if activated and have no highlight/blackened if it's deactivated.

It can be a good idea to turn OFF fire at will when moving units around in front of your line infantry or when charging cavalry/melee units past them, but otherwise you're better off not deactivating it.

That said, no unit can fire through another friendly unit without inflicting casualties, so be incredibly careful how you set up your ranks because later when you have better tech you can kill entire units of friendly troops from blue on blue fire.

----------------------------------------------------------

Other toolbar options:

You generally DON'T have to press any of the buttons on the bottom at all, unless the special occasions you want to switch your line infantry to "melee mode" for charging, square formations, changing ammunition type in artillery, and cavalry formations.

----------------------------------------------------------

Formations:

Originally posted by Goggly Gogol:

I still can't for the life of me figure out how to control my troops properly! Sometimes I group them, then try to rightclick/drag them into formations but they simply WILL NOT cooperate. Othertimes I remove them from groups and rightclick/drag and that seems to work, but then my army quickly becomes unorganized. Also, I try using the rotate buttons and each individual unit rotates instead of every unit that's selected rotating as a wall.

I'm totally confused with this game. I give simple commands and my units simply refuse to follow direction. Oh yeah, I love it when I send my cavalry to charge after a fleeing unit, turn my back on them and next thing you know, they're running in the opposite direction putting themselves in danger. I haven't a clue what's going on.....

Also, the preset formations seem utterly worthless...

By the way, this is my first Total War game. I really hate the controls, so frustrating...

Don't use the default/built-in formations options, they're terrible. Manually position your units in deployment and let the enemy come to your line. If you want to arrange your units, select the ones you want to move (hold ctrl+click for specific selections, shift+click for batch selections), and then right-click-drag them into formation at the spot you want them to go to.

If you use the control groups or the "unit grouping" button, it will lock those units into whatever formation they're currently in (or a sloppy mess all over the place if you haven't placed them right), so it's usually a good idea NOT to group your units until you have them in the exact formation you want them to stay in. Basically, if Line Infantry Unit A is in the back of your deployment and Line Infantry Unit B is in line where you want them, and you group them together in control group 1, they will STAY exactly like that, even if you right-click drag with them both selected.

So, don't ctrl+1,2,3,etc units into a group until you're SURE you're happy with how they're positioned. I'd suggest manually moving them all individually anyways.

---------------------------------------------------------

Other things:

Use the pause button to careful give orders to troops in battle to avoid problems with movement.

Make sure the "Guard" command is always on (the shield icon in the toolbar) for your units so they don't go chasing routing enemies across the field. Some Grenadiers have it disabled by default, so be sure to make sure to enabled it for them during deployment.

The arrow buttons (on the toolbar) are for fine-tuning, NOT for mass movement or rotating. Manually select, then right-click drag where and how you want your units to be.

Also, be careful how you position your artillery, place it on high ground and hills when possible to avoid blowing away friendly troops. This can be avoided by using howitzers and mortars, but those take a little while to be able to produce. Generally speaking, howitzers are perfect for supporting infantry and cannons are better for supporting cavalry, due to their longer range.

Cavalry should be used as a sort of "projectile" for targeting weak spots in the enemy line or wavering troops, and then retreating away again. The hammer and anvil tactic is tried and true and still works just as well against line infantry tied up fighting other line infantry. Charge with them, then run them away and charge again. If you keep them in melee, they'll become bogged down and kill enemies much slower, and there's a good chance they'll go ADD on you and try to attack another nearby enemy or draw fire after their current target has been routed. Cuirassiers and heavy cav can generally be left to do whatever they want, but never let Hussars, Uhlans, or Regiment of Horse wander around for too long or there's a good chance they'll end up getting killed.

-------------------------------------------------------

The last thing and most important thing, this game is about micromanagement. You need to micro ALL your units individually. Don't expect a magic "press formation button, right-click enemy" solution to make your army be perfectly positioned and attacking right. If you don't manually control every unit, things will get out of hand FAST. Be aware of what's going on across the entire battlefield, move your units accordingly. Never just select everything and then tell them to go, it will not work and you'll lose.

So, learn to manage ALL your units on their own, without using grouping for anything more than simply organizing units.

Thanks!!!!

This information has really helped my game. I've learned not to rely so much on the AI and I'm taking a more hands-on, micro manage approach that seems to really work. It's still a little tricky, but for the most part I'm having a blast with it now. Thanks again man!

[juliancoleman2162]

Its tough to get used to battles in Total War, it took me a while to get used to battles in Empire have fun.

[A Disappointed Horse]

If you can play Europa Universalis with no problems, then you're a better man than I.