Why can't militia/minutemen quip bayonets?

[laagamer]

Another noob question, please and thank you.

It seems only line infantry can.

Am I missing something?

[HazardHawk]

In history, militia were nothing more than a group of armed citizens with basically hunting rifles. They had little training and little organization. They were always the first to break and run. The only difference in American militias was resolve. George Washington used militias as a taunt knowing the British assumed they would break and run several times over. While American patriots changed the meaning of militia, it did not change the fact they were just a bunch of armed citizens

[Empire_TW]

Milita are just volunteers or civilians conscripted into service, many times having to bring their own gun, they wouldn't know how to use a bayonet or even own one in the first place.

[Insaniac]

Actually, regular ass militia can equip bayonets. Minutemen can’t. Best explanation I can give is that minutemen aren't government sanctioned.

[Inardesco]

Militia get the benefit of bayonets though? So do the Republican Conscripts.

Minuteman are considered militia but they perform more like light infantry

[pgeerkens]

Originally posted by Inardesco:

Militia get the benefit of bayonets though? So do the Republican Conscripts.

Minuteman are considered militia but they perform more like light infantry

I'm not an expert on the period - but that sounds historically correct to me.

[Stevcorp]

Bayonets needed a special fitting, or else needed to be exactly the right size to fit inside a barrel without wrecking the gun. Either way, the gun had to be military grade.

Minutemen were volunteers who used their own weapons. Most had hunting guns which weren't designed for bayonets. They also had no hand-to-hand training, which meant giving them bayonets was a bad idea.

Not that it mattered much. According to records most soldiers would turn and run from a bayonet charge anyway. After all, why stand around and let yourself be stabbed? It was easier to simply run away until the charging soldiers ran out of breath, then turn around and start shooting again.

[Inardesco]

Originally posted by Stevcorp:

Bayonets needed a special fitting, or else needed to be exactly the right size to fit inside a barrel without wrecking the gun. Either way, the gun had to be military grade.

Minutemen were volunteers who used their own weapons. Most had hunting guns which weren't designed for bayonets. They also had no hand-to-hand training, which meant giving them bayonets was a bad idea.

Not that it mattered much. According to records most soldiers would turn and run from a bayonet charge anyway. After all, why stand around and let yourself be stabbed? It was easier to simply run away until the charging soldiers ran out of breath, then turn around and start shooting again.

Appearantly, even if soldiers were in QCB they'd still load and fire the muskets instead of engaging in melee. Not too sure if thats true, but thats what I heard Lindybeige say about bayonets in one of his classic rants

[Insaniac]

I can believe it. Getting stabbed is probably ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ scary. And most soldiers apparently don’t shoot to kill, though that may have changed in recent times.

[Inardesco]

Originally posted by Steven Seagal:

I can believe it. Getting stabbed is probably ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ scary. And most soldiers apparently don’t shoot to kill, though that may have changed in recent times.

Yeah, appearantly less than 30% of American soldiers in WW2 aimed at their enemy directly. Then the US army changed the training targets (they shot at round targets training for WW2) where the targets were more human sized before the Korean War. This then trains the soldiers more to aim at a human-sized target on the battlefield aswell.

Nowadays soldiers are trained to shoot at human sized targets which is why there's such a massive difference when you look at the casualty difference between for instance the Somali's and the US for the Battle of Mogadishu or any modern combat interaction between Afghanis and the US. The soldiers are trained to kill whereas the "civilians" aren't and thus shoot in the general direction of a human.

This also is a reason why soldiers these days suffer so much from trauma and why the suicide is so high compared to WW2 veterans. Obviously, it's a lot more complicated than that but it's a contributing factor.

[Raptor]

Originally posted by Inardesco:

This also is a reason why soldiers these days suffer so much from trauma and why the suicide is so high compared to WW2 veterans. Obviously, it's a lot more complicated than that but it's a contributing factor.

The biggest problem with PTSD is the inability to properly identify the enemy. During WW2 and the Korean war, the enemy wore a uniform. Vietnam and modern wars, where the enemy don't wear a uniform makes everyone a potential threat. The constant state of unknowing and the fact that at any time a bomb could go off causes a large toll on the human mind. Similar to the week long artillery barrages during WW1. The constant noise and threat of death caused a large toll on the troops.

[HazardHawk]

PTSD is not what most people think it is. In combat you have to be aware and alive at all times or you die. It ramps up your system to the very edge and you stay there. It is the wildest high you can ever live living on that razor thin edge between life and death where at any moment one can become the other. It is more than addiction and the way you actually become.

The reason there are so many problems coming home is you are there on that edge and then suddenly 20 hours later that edge is removed. It was limited in WW2 as it was a months long trip by sea home with the same people you served with decompressing with your unit. Vietnam and after it is you are there on the edge one day and back at home the next with no time to switch off and shut down and with no support to learn how to be a human in every day society again. 99% of PTSD could be diminished and people readjusted through as little as a 90 day controlled walk down from the edge.

[laagamer]

Can I just say I love the real discussions this thread has broken into.

[Majacura]

To come back to the original question - Minutemen in game are irregulars wihtout proper military uniforms. They fire from every rank just like light infantry and they even have the skirmish ability, but have the number of men and firing range of line infantry. Minutemen are probably just in the militia category because of historical reasons and because they fit in no other category either.

[Rabidnid]

Originally posted by pgeerkens:

Originally posted by Inardesco:

Militia get the benefit of bayonets though? So do the Republican Conscripts.

Minuteman are considered militia but they perform more like light infantry

I'm not an expert on the period - but that sounds historically correct to me.

Yup conscripts and normal militia are armed by the state so have standard muskets that can take bayonets. Minutemen are using their own guns and so don't have the option to mount bayonets.

[Rabidnid]

Originally posted by Inardesco:

Originally posted by Stevcorp:

Bayonets needed a special fitting, or else needed to be exactly the right size to fit inside a barrel without wrecking the gun. Either way, the gun had to be military grade.

Minutemen were volunteers who used their own weapons. Most had hunting guns which weren't designed for bayonets. They also had no hand-to-hand training, which meant giving them bayonets was a bad idea.

Not that it mattered much. According to records most soldiers would turn and run from a bayonet charge anyway. After all, why stand around and let yourself be stabbed? It was easier to simply run away until the charging soldiers ran out of breath, then turn around and start shooting again.

Appearantly, even if soldiers were in QCB they'd still load and fire the muskets instead of engaging in melee. Not too sure if thats true, but thats what I heard Lindybeige say about bayonets in one of his classic rants

Yeah getting stuck in a fire fight where all thought is gone and training takes over. This is one of the reasons why the Russian emphasised the bayonet. Most armies would break when facing a bayonet charge. This is also the reason both the Swedes and Russian kept pikes long after they were out of fashion elsewhere. Pikes beat bayonets on the charge.