best cannon ammo type?

[FentanylWallaby]

Guys I use quciklimes a lot but I have no luck with any other cannon ammo type. I always bring two units of 24 howitzers to the field or 12 Iber cannons. I usually hit nothing but I try anyway.
The ai however... their shots always mess me up. Their limes decimate my British tea drinking line infantry, their shrapnel shots kill my cannons with amazing accuracy.
What am I doing wrong aaaaaaaaa

[JimmyTheSnake]

Percussion shells. All the arty is somewhat inaccurate, but when a percussion shell hits in the center of a unit it takes out A LOT of men. You're probably not doing anything wrong.

[Inardesco]

Quicklome and carcass needs to be shot in front of the enemy because a cloud is released from a canister. If you hit the line with the canister, no one dies from the cloud.

[pgeerkens]

Originally posted by Inardesco:

Quicklome and carcass needs to be shot in front of the enemy because a cloud is released from a canister. If you hit the line with the canister, no one dies from the cloud.

This is key - though not usually true when firing against cavalry. It does require considerable micro of the artillery fire at times, which is why (against the AI) the rest of your lineup should be set up so as to require minimal micro for the start of the battle.

[pgeerkens]

Originally posted by Doom:

their shrapnel shots kill my cannons with amazing accuracy.
What am I doing wrong aaaaaaaaa

"Shrapnel"!

If the AI ever gets to research shrapnel against you - then you are doing many, many, things very very wrong.

Don't trade for techs - build more schools. Build 6 schools as fast as is reasonable (not all regions are suitable) and fast-track to Slot Bayonet / Fire-by-Rank / Carcass Shot / Naval Architecture Advances with three of them. (Of the other three, keep two in the Industrial tree and one in the Enlightenment tree.)

if you are playing any of UK / UP / Spain / France you should now also be closing in on complete control of North America and the Caribbean. It is probably 1718-1720 and you can plan a 3 stack invasion of Southern India at Mysore and Carnutica (preceded by destruction of their sloop/brig navy and complete blockade of all their ports) before the Maratha get to Baghdad.

If you are struggling to win early small-stack battles, check out my video on defending Rupert's Land against an early Huron assault here

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2044074806

An example of my full-stack usage of artillery is this defense against a very large body of Genoese Provincial Cavalry here:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2052077604

If you are looking for other battle tips check out my NTW video playlists. I play NTW on battle = Very Hard and ETW on Battle = hard, but with very similar tactics except that howitzers take much longer to research in NTW. This means that my NTW videos tend to illustrate early-campaign battle tactics re ETW, with long guns only.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC7ZmyP4QSyP67oefBGrT7rw/playlists

[operating1]

Originally posted by Doom:

Guys I use quciklimes a lot but I have no luck with any other cannon ammo type. I always bring two units of 24 howitzers to the field or 12 Iber cannons. I usually hit nothing but I try anyway.
The ai however... their shots always mess me up. Their limes decimate my British tea drinking line infantry, their shrapnel shots kill my cannons with amazing accuracy.
What am I doing wrong aaaaaaaaa

Are you using terrain to your best advantage? Are your guns getting killed while trying to move them into position? I used to believe quicklime was better than percussion, however lately have noticed that percussion has been putting up better kill numbers. Usually target flanking units with howitzers while cannons stay concentrated to the front and oblique targets. As far as counter battery fire goes, it seems to me that solid shot works best, again the terrain makes the difference.. Love using indirect fire from behind a hill against enemy artillery..

[pgeerkens]

Originally posted by operating1:

Originally posted by Doom:

Guys I use quciklimes a lot but I have no luck with any other cannon ammo type. I always bring two units of 24 howitzers to the field or 12 Iber cannons. I usually hit nothing but I try anyway.
The ai however... their shots always mess me up. Their limes decimate my British tea drinking line infantry, their shrapnel shots kill my cannons with amazing accuracy.
What am I doing wrong aaaaaaaaa

Are you using terrain to your best advantage? Are your guns getting killed while trying to move them into position? I used to believe quicklime was better than percussion, however lately have noticed that percussion has been putting up better kill numbers. Usually target flanking units with howitzers while cannons stay concentrated to the front and oblique targets. As far as counter battery fire goes, it seems to me that solid shot works best, again the terrain makes the difference.. Love using indirect fire from behind a hill against enemy artillery..

Important notes:

1) By targeting ground just ahead or behind of an opposing battery, you can take them out with long-gun round shot at longer than maximum range. This quite effective up to about 115% to 120% of maximum range, then starts to really drop off in effectiveness. You will definitely want to Fast-Fast-Forward when doing this. This takes out the guns by knocking the tubes off the carriages, but has no effect on crews. You will want to hunt those crews down at the end to prevent them escaping the battlefield at full strength and returning with new gun tubes next battle.

You may sometimes see that enemy batteries well out of range start losing guns as you target approaching infantry. I think of this as "Bowling for Batteries". Clever choice of ground target locations can maximize this.

2) The ideal location for long guns, IMHO, is *just behind* the crest of a modest ridge.This gives them what the tankers call a "hull down" position, making it much more difficult for counter battery fire to hit your gun carriages. oftentimes these position are not quite wide enough for two batteries, and I will lose one gun on the end to enemy artillery fire, but that's small potatoes. The key is to keep the vegetation, but not the ground, within canister range in front of the guns visible when you get down low with the barrel muzzles. This means your defensive canister fire will still be effective.

[FentanylWallaby]

As usual tons of good info here. I swear Empire player base is best player base.
In warhammer and 3K everyone just fights ffs.
Has anyone done away with cannons alltogether? Like just used extra cav instead?

[pgeerkens]

Originally posted by Doom:

As usual tons of good info here. I swear Empire player base is best player base.
In warhammer and 3K everyone just fights ffs.
Has anyone done away with cannons alltogether? Like just used extra cav instead?

The 18th century started as the age of pike and ball, and ended as the age of steel, powder and ball. I have no doubt it could be done, especially at a lower difficulty, but you would be bucking the historical trends, and would run into real challenges once the other European powers research Fire-by-Rank and Carcass Shot. cavalry's importance on the battlefield was declining through the entire century, and i only ever employ missile cavalry and lancers in both ETW and NTW, playing on the harder difficulties. Heavy Cavalry simply isn't worth the cost IMHO.

[operating1]

Originally posted by pgeerkens:

Originally posted by Doom:

As usual tons of good info here. I swear Empire player base is best player base.
In warhammer and 3K everyone just fights ffs.
Has anyone done away with cannons alltogether? Like just used extra cav instead?

The 18th century started as the age of pike and ball, and ended as the age of steel, powder and ball. I have no doubt it could be done, especially at a lower difficulty, but you would be bucking the historical trends, and would run into real challenges once the other European powers research Fire-by-Rank and Carcass Shot. cavalry's importance on the battlefield was declining through the entire century, and i only ever employ missile cavalry and lancers in both ETW and NTW, playing on the harder difficulties. Heavy Cavalry simply isn't worth the cost IMHO.

Agree, seldom use heavy cav, although I have a weakness for light dragoons.. Personally I go vh-vh campaigns, without artillery my side would get slaughtered. I just put a US infantry up against a MC sikh infantry and lost like 4 to 1 casualties, it was embarrassing...!!! Like pg indicates: At a lower difficulty it may work with infantry alone, you'd have to be one heck of a general to go it all the way.. A couple on notes: Average upkeep for infantry is about 265, average upkeep for a 12 lder. battery is around 210, howitzers (all depending on size) runs about 150 -160 upkeep per battery. Infantry is so much more to buy and maintain, he*ll, the cost of repairs after a good battle would be enough to scare ya (break the bank)..!!

[pgeerkens]

Originally posted by operating1:

Originally posted by pgeerkens:

The 18th century started as the age of pike and ball, and ended as the age of steel, powder and ball. I have no doubt it could be done, especially at a lower difficulty, but you would be bucking the historical trends, and would run into real challenges once the other European powers research Fire-by-Rank and Carcass Shot. cavalry's importance on the battlefield was declining through the entire century, and i only ever employ missile cavalry and lancers in both ETW and NTW, playing on the harder difficulties. Heavy Cavalry simply isn't worth the cost IMHO.

Agree, seldom use heavy cav, although I have a weakness for light dragoons.. Personally I go vh-vh campaigns, without artillery my side would get slaughtered. I just put a US infantry up against a MC sikh infantry and lost like 4 to 1 casualties, it was embarrassing...!!! Like pg indicates: At a lower difficulty it may work with infantry alone, you'd have to be one heck of a general to go it all the way.. A couple on notes: Average upkeep for infantry is about 265, average upkeep for a 12 lder. battery is around 210, howitzers (all depending on size) runs about 150 -160 upkeep per battery. Infantry is so much more to buy and maintain, he*ll, the cost of repairs after a good battle would be enough to scare ya (break the bank)..!!

Lt. Dragoons **are** missile cavalry. Perhaps not *de jure*, but certainly *de facto*.

Once they have been researched I start phasing out any Native Auxiliary Cavalry (which i will transport all over prior to that simply because of how superior missile cavalry are for a general purpose stack.).

[operating1]

When you mention Native Auxiliary Cavalry, they like many other types of missile cav cannot dismount, they cannot scale a fort wall, they cannot occupy a building, they do not have a policing bonus. It's not that I strictly adhere to using light dragoons as a missile cav, although I do frequently, I might add that Native Auxiliary Cav are cheap to buy and have an upkeep somewhere south of 200, whereas, light dragoon cav on average are north of 300 for upkeep, never mind having the recruitment cost similar to a heavy cav.. I get it when someone refers to missile cav as being something cheap and disposable. I also get it: "That the ai frequently uses missile cav", some factions more than others, other than just the American tribes.

[FentanylWallaby]

Originally posted by operating1:

When you mention Native Auxiliary Cavalry, they like many other types of missile cav cannot dismount, they cannot scale a fort wall, they cannot occupy a building, they do not have a policing bonus. It's not that I strictly adhere to using light dragoons as a missile cav, although I do frequently, I might add that Native Auxiliary Cav are cheap to buy and have an upkeep somewhere south of 200, whereas, light dragoon cav on average are north of 300 for upkeep, never mind having the recruitment cost similar to a heavy cav.. I get it when someone refers to missile cav as being something cheap and disposable. I also get it: "That the ai frequently uses missile cav", some factions more than others, other than just the American tribes.

Hey my native cav shoot each other a lot. Like if I have three units charging at the enemy atleast 9 or 10 will die from friendly fire in the charge. You notice this aswell

[operating1]

Originally posted by Doom:

Originally posted by operating1:

When you mention Native Auxiliary Cavalry, they like many other types of missile cav cannot dismount, they cannot scale a fort wall, they cannot occupy a building, they do not have a policing bonus. It's not that I strictly adhere to using light dragoons as a missile cav, although I do frequently, I might add that Native Auxiliary Cav are cheap to buy and have an upkeep somewhere south of 200, whereas, light dragoon cav on average are north of 300 for upkeep, never mind having the recruitment cost similar to a heavy cav.. I get it when someone refers to missile cav as being something cheap and disposable. I also get it: "That the ai frequently uses missile cav", some factions more than others, other than just the American tribes.

Hey my native cav shoot each other a lot. Like if I have three units charging at the enemy atleast 9 or 10 will die from friendly fire in the charge. You notice this aswell

Sure sounds like your on the south end of a learning curve.... Either group them so they have the same frontage, or stagger the attacks.. Can't express enough about situational awareness.. Of course if a player does not care, then don't care..

[FentanylWallaby]

What does " south end" mean?
Well I'm at the end of my first campaign, but in warhammer total war I never had to worry about this kind of thing.. ever.
Though I do like this type of battle, warhammer was like a kid clonking its toys together this is more like a chess game.

[FentanylWallaby]

Oh I got it now. Yes I am at the south end.